Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Engine is new Raceline Zetec running on twin 40 carbs. I've always had a fair bit of trouble starting the engine and yet it seems to run just fine once up and running so to speak. The normal stating procedure is 4 pushes on the throttle and hit the starter button, pretty similar to my old x/flow, but the engine just does not seem to want to fire or 'catch' very easily. Yesterday, for example, there were 2 large pops out of the silencer (unburnt fuel I assume) and a few spits out of the carbs themselves. This goes on until it eventually fires up. Prior to fitting the new engine I stripped and rebuilt the carbs, fitting new jets etc, but I'm beginning to worry that I've done something stupid as I perceive that there is some sort of over-fuelling problem on start up Anybody care to offer some advice/help/understanding.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 What type of fuel pump do you have? if you have an electrical pump make sure you have allowed it to fill the float chambers before your 4/5 pumps to prime the induction. Turn the igntion on and wait for 5 seconds or so, then pump the loud pedal. If you have a mechanical pump then it will take a bit of cranking for the chambers to plenish Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thanks Oily, Fuel pump is Pacet Solid State with fuel regulator set at 2.5. Looks like I maybe being a bit impatient 😳 Will try later and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wonder if you're getting enough spark. I note that its a new engine but I'd check the plug gaps and maybe even change them for another set. Once NGKs get fouled, I've found they can be a problem to clear, even though they've dried out. Also, check the battery voltage when you're cranking. A cold tight engine will put a lot of load on the cold battery and the poor little chap can struggle to give enough volts to fire the coil properly. One way of proving/disproving would be to 'jump' the battery from a fully charged bigger one or from a running car in the usual way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yep, I takes a while to fill my carbs.I wait till pump goes really quite & then 2 prods of loud pedal before firing her.mine does catch every 1 st time. As long as I keep her on throttle for a bit till warmed mind. Sounds like firing not quite right. I had my throttle pot fall off giving me that, make sure this is still set on carbs mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedlr Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 On my VX (twin 45s) on these cold days, I have to hold the choke levers open to get it started. As soon as its started I can release the chokes and tickle the throttle until it settles into an idle. Do you have chokes on the 40s? (Might be a dumb question - they all might - but I don't know enough about carbs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 There chokes but there not used very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Ok, this is where I'm at. It looks like I've been too impatient in trying to start the engine So I've let the pump run for a bit and then quieten down, given 4 pumps on the throttle, waited a second or so hit the starter button and then pump the throttle. It did start but begrudgingly. This is what I noticed though, the engine cranks over nicely, but when I push the throttle the cranking immediately becomes more laboured; to the point where I feel the battery is going to give up. Battery is new and shows a healthy 13v at rest and 14v when engine running. Maybe I'm expecting too much comparted to my x/flow which with a mechanical fuel pump and Lucas Competition ignition always started first time without a hint of trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Chris I wonder if you've too much advance on the ignition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Its the voltage when you're cranking that's important. I've known a number of cars that don't fire until you let go of the starter button, the voltage goes up and there's then enough voltage to generate a spark. If you're lucky, the engine has just enough momentum to fire and keep running. Try jumping it and see if it makes any difference. These little Banner batteries are hardly man enough for the job, especially when they're cold. When you open the throttle you're allowing more air into the cylinders which has to be compressed by the pistons. Hence, the crank is seeing more load which is why its cranking more slowly. This, incidentally will pull your battery voltage down even more. An alternative scenario is when the cranking ignition advance is too great and the engine is firing too early and trying to blow the crank in reverse direction. This doesn't sound like your problem though. Once you've primed the cylinders by pumping the pedal a few times, hold the throttle open slightly, rather than keeping on pumping it until it fires. Otherwise you could be flooding the cylinders. But you'll know this from your X-flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 probably as you start pressing on the accelerator, you will be advancing the timing. Try waiting a second or two later - so when it is trying to catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Mark/Paul, As the engine is fresh out of the box from Raceline and they set up the timing I'm guess that shouldn't be an issue. Current battery is one of these. Looks like I simply need to find a suitable starting technique and I guess the cold weather in the mornings this week won't have helped. After all it's not often I try to start the 7 when it's between 5 and 10C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyCoulson Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Being a bit dim but wouldn't it be worth your while updating to fuel injection or don't zetecs respond well to that sort of upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 That's the next stage of the plan , but I've already spent too much on getting this far ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative z7 Posted March 9, 2011 Area Representative Share Posted March 9, 2011 Chris, So I've let the pump run for a bit and then quieten down, given 4 pumps on the throttle, waited a second or so hit the starter button and then pump the throttle. It did start but begrudgingly.I use the same procedure but don't apply any throttle whilst turning the key (in my case), once she fires then I add a bit, in this weather certainly. Being a bit dim but wouldn't it be worth your while updating to fuel injection or don't zetecs respond well to that sort of upgrade?They do, apparently, respond well but the wallet doesn't Adil Edited by - Adil on 9 Mar 2011 17:53:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 fuel injection an upgrade (hahahaha) throttle bodies more like!! Nothing wrong with carbs anyway,if there set-up well. mine run like a dream 🥰 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Chris, Are you running the geared starter motor, i've heard that running a standard starter on a tweaked zetec can have problems due to increased compression ratio's Mine's a standard zetec, with a standard starter and turns over and starts fine, However we did have to religously work through the carb set up to get the carb's settled nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 Chris, Just a standard starter motor as recommended/supplied by Raceline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Have you checked the ECU ouput for the sensors you are not using? Water temp being the obvious one... The default setting can be/is on the wrong side of the trigger point for 'special' running, basically setting the timing wrong for the actual conditions. I had to re-set a number of the default ECU settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lowe Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Quoting Eugene: Have you checked the ECU ouput for the sensors you are not using? Water temp being the obvious one... Chris, if you are using the OMEX 200 ECU you should have the W/Temp sensor connected, I would not mess about with the standard OMEX ignition only MAP, my experience is they are pretty good. When mine was on carbs I found that it just took some time to get used to starting procedure, from memory I would switch the pump on, wait until it ran quiet, give it 2/3 pumps on the throttle then turn it over without any throttle, as it fired I would 'feather' the throttle. With regard to your starter motor, give me a ring when you have a moment as I have something I need to discuss with you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 What are you running on now Guy? I love the sound of spitting carbs in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezky Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Chris May be the poor starting is due to a new engine 🤔 Mine was slow to turn-over for the first few hundred miles but now starts alot better. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lowe Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Quoting zetec: What are you running on now Guy? ADRENALINE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I think it has been mentioned that the way the alternator is mounted with the new Raceline parts that it is not being earthed properly, I think that the engine turns over, the alternator turns helping to increase voltage to the sysytem and aid starting, if you have a bad earth it could be causing this problem, hope this will help, maybe talking Borrocks though, can anyone advise? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Phil, I know about the alternator 'problem' and already have an earth strap in place. I will check to ensure that it is a good connection though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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