Oil leak help - Fixed (fingers crossed!)

[KarlH]

Well, after too many years of waiting I finally managed to get my hands on a Caterham and it's even better than I remember the trackday I did with Caterham Cars at Castle Combe about 10 years ago

 

Anyway, apart from saying hello I wondered if anyone could shed any light on a slight oil leak I seem to have, I've had a search of the threads but haven't really found anything conclusive which may be due to my limited mechanical knowledge!

 

It's a 1.8 K series and I noticed a small amount of oil on the garage floor the other day, having a look round it seemed to be coming from near the exhaust manifold - pictures attached here and here.

 

I checked the oil level, all seemed fine and cleaned any sign of oil off. After the next short run out I checked and there wasn't any sign of oil but after getting back from watching the 750mc at Brands Hatch yesterday I checked and it's appeared at that same spot again although not enough to start dripping on the floor.

 

Any pointers to what it could be would be gratefully received!

 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited by - karlh on 6 Aug 2010 09:19:34

[simonpa]

Hi Karl,

I'm afraid it looks like a head gasket. AFAICR, there is a main oil riser in that corner of the block/head.

 

There's a chance that it could be a leak from the front camshaft oil seals and it's working it's way down to that corner. That's a lot easier to remedy :)

 

Check the inside of your oil filler cap and see if there is any mayonnaise there, and also for the same, or oily deposits in your water expansion tank.

 

How old/miles and what spec is the car/engine?

 

Cheers - Simon

 

 

Edited by - simonpa on 21 Jun 2010 11:26:33

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Welcome to BlatChat .... shame it starts with a problem !

 

In the second photo, it looks like a gap between the head and block ?? Sure it can't be !

 

Have you just bought the car ...... was it from a dealer ?

 

 

[charlie_pank]

I don't think there's a gap between the head and the block - if you zoom in, you can see the gasket sandwiched in there.

 

I'd agree about head-gasket - there's not a drop of oil above the HG, only below. I would expect a small amount above the HG if it was the camshaft oil-seal. Is the HG a really big job to replace on a K? Is there more to it than head off, new gasket in, head back on? Do you have to something with the liners etc...?

 

back here because I want to be.

[KarlH]

Thanks for your replies.

 

It's a 2002 car bought privately, previously used on the road and for sprinting. Person I bought it off put the engine in a couple of years ago I believe and said it had done about 3000 miles. Overall the car has 8200 miles on the clock.

 

No signs of white deposits on oil filler cap will check the coolant tank tonight.

 

I'm guessing this picture shows oil getting into that recess from the point identified in the other pics, you can see it's quite wet above that but I don't know why only one would have oil in and not the other unless it's worse in a place I can't see!

 

Cheers

 

 

[oilyhands]

Take off the cambelt fron cover and examine the condition of the cam oil seals, if either is wet with oil then that is most likely your problem.

 

Oily

[KarlH]

Thanks Oily, will take a look tonight.

[KarlH]

Well assuming I've not been a complete numpty and taken the wrong cover off everything looked and felt dry under the cambelt cover(see here), that is everywhere apart from round the rubber seal on the cover which seemed way too big for the cover.

 

As for the coolant, it does look to have some oil in it, underside of the cap had some brown deposits and the top half has loads of brown spots on it - see pic

 

So would that point to head gasket failure then?

 

Just my luck to finally get one and not be able to go out in it!

[charlie_pank]

Just in case that wasn't a rhetorical question: yes. All the evidence points to head gasket failure. On the bright side, the engine doesn't have to come out, and you get to buy a torque wrench!

 

Oh and once you've put it all back together, you will have a good excuse for being totally paranoid about coolant levels.

 

 

Edited by - charlie_pank on 22 Jun 2010 08:17:33

[oilyhands]

Normally HGF does not manifest itself in that way as there is only a single oilway on the head/block interface and the normal mode of failure is into the coolant. I've only ever seen one failure at the front oilway to the outside worlkd and that was due to a faulty gasket.

 

If it were me I would clean the area thoroughly and run the engne for a few minutes to see if I could locate the source, it is not unknown for oil leaks from other sources to move along the engine in the block/head split by capilliary action as the engine tilts down at the front, this can often disguise the soruce of the leak.

[charlie_pank]

Hi Oily, I bow to your vastly superior experience on these matters (hell, I don't even own a k any more!), but did you look at the picture of the header tank?

 

back here because I want to be.

[KarlH]

I'll give it another clean off and do some more looking around....

[John Vine]

Hi Karl,

Looking at pic D, is that oil on the cover below the exhaust camshaft sprocket? If so, it could have come from the exh camshaft seal, and then blown backwards along the line of the head/block join. So, clean as Oily suggests and then run the engine with the cambelt cover off, observing closely. But I can't explain the brown globby stuff in the header tank (other than to agree that it could well indicate a HGF). Try wiping a finger around the inside the tank and examine what you pick up.

 

JV

[KarlH]

OK, I've cleaned it all up, took the cambelt cover off and ran the engine - nothing coming out in the area under the cover.

 

Checked all round the engine, no signs of it elsewhere and no oil until the engine gets warm and then it slowly starts to apear in that same corner. Revving doesn't seem to increase the flow.

 

The stuff in the header tank is a browny red colour and a bit sticky. No sign of anything sat on top of the coolant, well not til it fell off my finger anyway!

 

Anything else for me to check?

[Ozzy]

Any more news on this Karl?

 

Been reading this with interest, as I have a small oil leak as well. Although I'm pretty sure mine is under the exhaust manifold. Spoke to Oily about it, and he seems to think I may have a bit weeping from the valve guides, as this side of the engine is constantly immersed in oil, as the blocks mounted cock eyed on our cars.

 

Nigel

 

C7 FST....Powered by DVA

 

A Wolf in Clams Clothing!

[KarlH]

No news on this Nigel, still got a bit of oil appearing when the engine's warm. No noticeable change in oil level either, cleared the gunk from the header tank and no more seams to have appeared so far.

 

It's beyond me so is booked in for someone to take a look at but that's not for a couple of weeks - will let you know what the outcome is.

[KarlH]

Well, it's been in to be looked at and proved to be something of a mystery!

 

It was pretty wet under the cambelt cover so that was all stripped and the engine properly cleaned to see if the source could be identified but after a lot of running at various revs there wasn't any sign of oil anywhere. The crank oil seal was replaced as he thought that could be the cause given evidence of where the mess was.

 

I get home after 45 mins of driving, pop the bonnet off and the bottom of the cambelt cover is all wet! No sign of oil where I first noticed it though.

 

While I wait to get it back in is there anything else I can check or is there a reason why when stationary and run at various revs for 30+ mins there's no sign of oil but after driving there is?

 

Cheers,

 

Karl.

[CaterBram]

Might sound daft, but have you checked your engine mounts recently ?

 

Run staitionary or rolling road there's no G Force's at play where as on the road a failed engine mount might give enough play to cause a leak ?

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits. .CaterBram on Facebook

[John Vine]

is there a reason why when stationary and run at various revs for 30+ mins there's no sign of oil but after driving there is

My guess is that it's temperature-related. So when the engine is properly hot, a weep appears because, somewhere, metal has expanded. IMHO, that takes us back to a possible HGF.

 

Jv

[Milesk]

Hi Karl

 

I read this link with much interest - my problem is the same as yours - exactly

 

Although I was at Brands Hatch.

 

Cam belts are dry, no gunge in oil filling area, water tank ok, cam bearing dry - its as if the oil is seeping out between the Cam cover and cariier?? then the oil works its way back from the fron or drips on to the alternator??

 

I am going to lift the cam cover and carrier to have a look.

 

I do not believe you or I have HGF (Having said that I have a nice new kit if I need it - saving for engine rebuild this winter )

 

I will see how I get on and will update you or vice versa (if it helps)

 

Or if anyone else comes up with some bright ideas

 

Kind regards

 

Miles

[Bumble]

Hi Karl,

 

I'm over in Petts Wood

I've just noticed a very small leak between the gearbox and engine, and need to get someone on the case, did you have the engine examined locally?

 

I've got a 1.6 k series, but the mystery is that I was also at Brands.

The leak (as garage floor will testify) happens when cold, not when hot.

 

I blame Brands!

 

Matt

 

 

[gileshudson]

. . . the Bermuda Triangle, the Evo Triangle and now the Brands Triangle . . . there's one for the conspiracy theorists.

 

Anyway KarlH; a belated *wavey* Welcome and Enjoy *wavey* from me.

 

Shame you've got off to a problematic start, but at least you know what temperamental little madams they can be from the outset and hopefully once you've got her sorted, she'll give you many many years of fun and thrills.

 

Keep us posted and well done for using BlatChat as it should be, as cumulatively there's hundreds, maybe thousands of years of experience reading this and all willing to offer advice. Not me for mechanicals though 😬 Now that would be disastrous . . .

 

Giles

---

Beryl the Peril (HPC)

[KarlH]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions - I'll carry on trying to investigate myself before it goes back. That and sounds like I should stay away from Brands, last time I was there my friend span his Locost twice and claimed I jinxed him but I can't be to blame for the other two incidents mentioned here

 

I'm over in Petts Wood

Matt, I'm in Beckenham - will keep an eye out for you in the area, what colour's yours? I took it to Andy Belcher over in Redhill, he came recommended plus it's a nice drive out there!

 

Giles, thanks for the welcome - I was expecting some fiddling to be done but hoped it wouldn't be anything expensive to start off but I guess it's tough luck.

 

well done for using BlatChat as it should be

heh, for a while before joining I couldn't work out from some posts whether it was a hang out for hormonal teenagers or a car forum The amount of knowledge on here seems vast, I only hope that over time I'll start to pick up some of that and do more work on the car myself!

[CaterBram]

Hope you get her sorted fairly easily, & welcome to the club.

 

BlatChat can appear a bit daunting but in the main is good natured banter.

 

At the end of the day like any forum, don't post anything which you would not say to someone's face & if you have a problem with an individual use common sense & sort it with the individual in private rather than as a public brawl 😬

 

Other than that BlatChat is a great resource and I personnally wish more people use it.

 

Q469 WET, 1990 1690 Xflow Long Cockpit in Ali except for the red bits. .CaterBram on Facebook

[Mort]

I have a very small seepage from exactly the same area as the first photo. ☹️ Not enough to drip, but enough to show when I wipe it with workshop roll.

 

No other signs at all - either in coolant, which is like new, or under oil filler. Not what you expect from a car with 2000 miles on the clock though. That's 2 oil leaks so far. At least it's still under warranty.

 

Nick

 

It's life Jim, but not as WE know it!