Hi-Spec or Bremsports Brakes Updates?

[Robin C]

Chaps,

 

Having searched the archives for info on alternative 4 pot braking systems (to Caterham AP that is) most of the postings are 6-12 months old and seem full of people who have just upgraded or are about to. Now some time has past could any of you running Hi-spec, Willwood or Bremsport brakes give an update on how impressed/unimpressed you are.

[murph7355]

I didn't try the others so can't answer your direct query, but when I looked at the options Caterham had just dropped the price on theirs to something like 700-750 all in (incl. fitting) - think it's 795 now.

 

When I did the sums of everything needed (including discs, pipework as needed, pads, fluid, my own time/grazed knuckles etc) from the other places this wasn't a million miles out (maybe 100 quid or so tops cf the cheapest), so I opted for the OE version.

 

And they are bloody good brakes. Did everything I'd been trying to achieve with the standard brakes in terms of feel etc, and stopping power is superb.

 

Also have the side advantage of being a very known quantity for selling on (if necessary) etc.

[Graham Sewell]

Not what you have asked for, but, I upgraded to the Caterham AP ones about 2 months ago and they are a major improvement on the standard items on a live axle car. I do not feel that an uprated master cylinder is necessary and if you get Caterham to fit them, they are overall a sensible price. The main reason that I chose the APs over any of the others is that they will be well supported in the future for spares/service because there are so many Sevens fitted with them - rather than getting the Alcons which could only be serviced by James Whiting (and even less support for Wilwood/Bremsport/Hi-spec) ....

 

Low tech luddite - xflow and proud!

[philwaters]

Hi Robin,

 

I went for the Hi-spec option. 253mm vented & grooved discs, 4 pot racing calipers and green stuff pads.

Overall I am very happy. I was dissapointed with the service I initially recieved from them, but have to say that they got their act together and produced a kit which does the job very well.

I don't think I will go with Green stuff pads again, as they seem to lack some initial bite, and want to try some of the Mintex or Ferodo pads.

The brakes took a lot of bleeding an I had a longer pedal for a long time, thinking that I needed the Race cylinder, but after one last attempt, I got them really solid and now the pedal movement is just right for me.

One problem that myself and Steve Mell found was getting them to fit inside the wheel. The original kit didn't and this was down to the width of the normal caliper and the diameter of disc they were trying to use. Steve did all the development work and they arrived at using the Racing caliper which is slimmer, but does without seals. As someone who cleans there car to much, I don't see a problem for me. The minimum diameter of the inside of the wheel at the mounting face is around 280mm from memory, probably no worse than the AP's.

Mine do squeal a little bit, after the main braking when you are coming off the pedal to give a gradual slow down to a junction, etc, but I am going o chamfer the pads slightly and see if that cures it.

If you are near to Bracknell you are welcome over to have a look. Oh, and I paid around £530 all in inc. VAT and delivery... fitting took me 2hrs.

 

Phil Waters

Zetec is in and running

 

Edited by - philwaters on 20 Aug 2002 13:34:33

[Robin C]

Andy,

 

Thanks Andy I see your point and may follow suit. Did you change the master cylinder or stick with the standard?

[murph7355]

I already had the master cylinder uprated prior to the brakes in an effort to get the standard ones just so (worked to an extent), so have yet to try big brakes without the m/c upgrade.

 

This may well be remedied in the next day or two though so will report back.

 

FWIW I didn't rate greenstuff pads on the standard set up. They were OK at first but started to feel rubbish after not very long and only one track outing. When taking them off to find out why they had cracked and crazed badly. It could be that I needed redstuff but didn't bother finding out on the big brakes, just using the pads that come with them (which are good).

 

May be trying Pagid blues soon. Again, will report back.

[Paul D Jones]

I have a biase bar pedal set up and willwood 4 pots on the front and ford 4x4 callipers on the back the front discs are cortina the rear escort and the car stopped from over three figers to stopped in the distance between the third and last warning of a 30mph speed warning and the 30 limit I belive these are about 100 feet apart could be wrong my passenger was impressed though oh tyres warm 032rs 13 205 car Zetec Westfield see below.

 

 

 

Paul.

See My Car Here

[AMMO]

Phil

 

Rather than chamfer the pads try a bit of Copaslip between the pad backing material and the pistons (not between the friction material and the disc!) and see if that stops the squealing.

 

Robin.

 

I've been thinking about brakes for some time and cannot bring myself to part with the money for a set of AP's ( mainly because I don't have it even if I wanted to). Considering the Alcons, especially as a friend of mine who makes motorcycle brakes has tested them on his brake dyno and was very impressed. Better than Willwoods according to him. Very stiff with very little flex.

 

I don't use the car that hard so am not in need of the ultimate brakes. Like the idea that the solid discs are quite light (lighter if you drill them) and are dirt cheap to replace.

 

Of course the AP gear is the ultimate setup but if you don't need the ultimate then I think Alcons are OK. Can't comment on other brands but have a couple of friend with Alcons who are very pleased with them.

 

 

AMMO

[philwaters]

Cheers Ammo,

 

I have tried the coppergrease in all the contact areas and it worked for about 5 miles.

 

Btw, found the reciept for my brakes and it was £512 not £530... ooops.

 

Phil Waters

Zetec is in and running

[J.R.]

Fitted willwood dynalite calipers , - made mounting brackets. Very pleased with results. Cost about £95 each IIRC.

 

Pads are readily available from either Rally Design or Sejoc or EBC (cheap!).

[AMMO]

J.R.

 

That sound really reasonable. I could be very tempted.

 

In a previous posting I said the Alcon were stiffer thean the Wilwoods. Wasn't implying that the Willwoods were no good. The reason the Alcons are stiffer is that they are also much heavier. I would rather have a bit of weight reduction as I don't use the brakes that hard.

 

Any chance of some more info? I assume you went with 35mm pistons. Did you retain the stock m/cylinder? Any problems with pad taper wear? I had KAD calipers on my Mini Cooper S and although the piston sizes were the same they didn't hardly taper at all.

 

Getting all excited now ❗ Potential 4 kilos weight saving 😬

 

AMMO

[philwaters]

J.R, what disc is that with? The standard solid one I presume. We looked into going with Willwood when Hi-spec were letting us down, but found that their 'kit' (sold to 46 odd people I think) used a vented disc with 32mm offset. Steve got one and checked and it clashed with the track rod end. The only solution was to machine the hub - which niether of us fancied much.

 

Phil Waters

Zetec is in and running

[Jeff]

I went the Wilwood route from Rally Design. I also had to machine the hubs and changed my track rod arms. It ended up costing more than the actual price. Doesn't that always seem to happen? I also noted that while the calipers were considerably lighter, the ventilated and drilled discs were much heavier than the originals. Net weight savings: Little if any. If I did it again? James Whiting's Alcons with drilled Caterham discs. Hope I was helpful.

 

[Mike Biddle]

I also went with Hi Spec, but with a solid 280MM disc with aluminium centres, and slimline calipers. They fit inside my 13" rims, just, are very light, very powerfull, with lots of control. Kept the satndard master cylinder and it works very well.

 

[DaveK]

Robin

 

I drove a bec yesterday fitted with alcon 2 piston calipers on std disc and was very impressed with the stopping power and control that they offered.

 

Pedal feel was good with initial bite being very progressive

 

On a lighter car they would seem to be a good alternative to std calipers

 

i cannot comment on piston sizes or weight though

 

Cheers

 

Dave

😬

[AMMO]

I have also been thinking of staying with two pots. Have seen that Wilwood also do a 2 pot caliper which has the same piston sizes as the standard caliper. They only cost around £65.00 + VAT. They weigh 650 grms as opposed to around 3.5 kilos for the stock items. I am a bit worried as they are a bit skimpy and machined from billet. My experience with race bikes has shown that size for size the cast calipers run cooler. A bit of bulk doesn''t hurt sometime.

 

Might be tempted to buy and fit them. If marginal can always put them on the rear and fit four pots on the front.

 

Mallock do an ali caliper which is a copy of the standard front two pot. Bit steep though.

 

The alternative is to fit some second hand two pot ali calipers from an Elise. They are meant for a vented disc but could be machined to fit. Should be some out there if Elise owners also suffer from upgraditis.

 

Dave K, would be interesting to know what pads were being used with the two pots.

 

The problem I have with my front brakes is that they lack initial bite and feel. I think the correct pad may solve this problem. Am tempted to try Hawk pads.

 

AMMO

[Joe 90]

AMMO,

 

At £65 and 650gms I'm very interested in the Wilwood calipers. I've worn out my standard calipers ☹️ and I'm loathe to spend my money on the standard ones. I've had a surf round the Wilwood web site, but you can only find out about stuff if you know what youre looking for. Have you got a part number, or at least a model name?

 

 

 

98,000 miles so far

[AMMO]

Oliver

 

Part numbers are 120-4060 and 120-4062. They have different mounting centres at 3.75" and 3.25". Wouldn't know which ones to go for. Neither will bolt straight on. An adaptor plate would have to be made.

 

Am still tempted to try some but think that they are a bit skimpy. For a few quid more you can get the four pots which probably have a enough mass to dissipate the heat. With the four pots you may have problems with imbalance from front to rear which could be corrected with a proportioning valve on the rear circuit. The nice thing about the two pots is that the piston sizes are the same as standard so should work OK.

 

AMMO

[Joe 90]

AMMO,

 

Many thanks. This could be one of the best value weight saving exercises you can do ❗ 2.85kg saved for £65, or £22 per kg, much cheaper than carbon wings etc. I don't use my brakes hard, so I'm sure they will be fine. Now I just need to find someone who sells them.

 

 

 

 

99,000 miles so far

[AMMO]

Rally Design. 01795 531871.

 

AMMO

[J.R.]

Long wait for my reply!

 

I used the 4 pot Dynalite calipers and amde my own mountings to fit the standard disc. I retained the standard master cylinder although it is an older car -1986 vintage.

 

The set up works very well and is considerably lighter than standard, no problems with pad taper or brake bias imbalance.

 

Would recommend it as cheap, good but requiring some fabrication.

[AMMO]

J.R.

 

Thanks for that. I will probably go down the Wilwood route.

 

AMMO

[Dan J]

J.R.

 

Can you confirm the piston diameter specs in your Dynalites?

 

TIA

 

Dan J

[J.R.]

Dan J.

 

They were the standard offering, check in the Rally Design catalogue.

[Graham Perry]

Not wishing to hi-jack the thread, but what are the best alternatives for rears calipers on a De-dion ? Like most people I still have the original Sierra based rear calipers, but they are heavy. Are there sensibly priced lightweight alternatives where you can still keep the handbrake ?