akb Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I am considering the purchase of a new R500 and an obvious option is the sequential box. The car will be used for spirited road use and trackdays. I would very much appreciate the collective thoughs / advice on the following questions: - Is the box suitable for road use? How noisy is it? Is is really practical at 'below track' speeds? - How reliable is it? I am aware of the oil leaks on most if not all of the initial boxes fitted to the early R500s. It seems the racers also had problems but may have performed their own modifications. What was the cause - there has been talk about the rear bearing or maybe the top gasket? Does anyone know if the has been 'solved' for good? - Heat build up in the engine bay / transmission tunnel in the R500 Duratech is a problem. Does anyone have thoughts on whether this will be a long term problem to this box. Quaife have lots of experience in other (better ventilated) cars but this is a new installation for them. - Any thoughts on the likely maintenance / refresh schedule. I know its dependent on how it is used but I hear of racers rebuilding more than once per season. Any thoughts on what this implies for typical non-race usage? - In summary will I regret it? All thoughts welcome, Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 - Is the box suitable for road use? Haven't the foggiest - other than to say that sequential boxes on bike-engined cars are an absolute joy to use on the road. As long as the Quaife hasn't got any annoying quirks, it should be great. 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Chan Posted September 21, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted September 21, 2009 - In summary will I regret it? I think only you will know that one! I was fortunate to be loaned the white R500 for the Stoneleigh weekend with its sequential SC box. It was a fabulous car and had excellent road manners for me. The only comment i would make is that the gearbox was very loud and meant earplugs (and very good quality ones at that) would be essential wear at all times. The gearbox action was very slick and I loved the way you could easily get to neutral and reverse and the riflebolt noise it made. Fullbore clutchless shifts were easy. Would I tick the option box if I ordered a new R500? Yes, I would - but then I lived with a Quaife SCCR box for a number of years and that was loud too... Nick ----- Back in a BEC! - But trying to get into Class 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelpugh Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I would not bother for your intended use. My Quaife box has been the biggest problem with my new R500, meaning that it has been off the road for more times than it has been on. Caterham wont admit it either but all the Quaife box's are having problems. My R500 has now been back at Caterham Cars for almost 10 weeks just to fix the Quaife box. If I were buying a new R500 again, I would only consider the Caterham 6 Speed box. Nigel Nigel Pugh - Area Representative - WAGS - Worcestershire Area Group Sevens R500 CP - New 2008 Duratec R500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Nigel - are you sure 100% that ALL of the gearboxes you describe are having issues? Please make sure this is correct or edit your post accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelpugh Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Mav, Cant be sure that its 100% of course, I am only stating facts and when I spoke to Quaife directly regarding my gearbox they told me specifically regarding the issue with the rear oil seal, and all that had been delivered would need to be modified. The later gearbox's should already have the modification carried out, however I am aware of two other R500 owners who have had the gearbox replaced already, and now even the new unit is starting to leak too. One owner has also gone down the route of having hsi first gearbox repaced directly by quaife with the alternative semi helical unit, to see if this unit was less noisy and prone to leaks. Nigel Nigel Pugh - Area Representative - WAGS - Worcestershire Area Group Sevens R500 CP - New 2008 Duratec R500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's early days but I've had no problems from my semi-helical version which is one of the later models. It's also seems quiet. I'm unsure about how much additional heat the gearbox does or doesn't generate but I'd be very surprised if it's more than any other box. I will be putting some temp strips on my Duratec unit, the gearbox, diff and brakes over the winter, to see how warm each of them run. I'll post the findings when I get them. One thing I will say about the 'box is that the breather isn't very well designed. Peter M acknowledged the same and will be lobbying Mike Q to have it revised; there's no deflection plate beneath the breather, so oil is prone to being thrown out of the breather fitting rather than just venting pressure. For this reason it's prudent to run a hose from the breather to a catch tank, rather than just vent it to a filter or the atmosphere directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garibaldi Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I have been running a semi-helical 6 speed 60G for 14 months or so and have completed well over 6k miles on several trips to the Alps etc as well as running about in the UK... It is fitted with the early gear lever turret which does not fit correctly and needs to be sealed and I run a nice long, vertically hooped, breather hose to a small catch bottle in front of the drivers footwell which remains dry... I have experienced NO oil leaks as yet... I will be changing the oil this weekend so I will see what is left...! Yes it can be noisy and occasionally clunky.... I seem to have no knack for reverse... but when you are pressing on it is slick and great fun to use.... Gary Edited by - Garibaldi on 23 Sep 2009 08:04:09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilg Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 For what it's worth i have been running my Blackbird for 18 months or so and there is no way i'd consider a Caterham now without a sequential box. Had a go in a 2.3 duratec the other day with 5 speed box and oh my god , how looooonnng and sllooooooooww was that gear shift. Just my tuppence wuth!! Best Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Just to add, My G60 was given a proper thrashing through the gears today (to an indicated 156mph thanks to my overdriven 6th 😬 during the 5hrs it spent on T&R's TAT rollers ) this was followed by a quick blat around the roads of Essex. The drivetrain noise was un-noticeable, it used no oil (although I'm now going to do a 'box oil change because I consider it's been run-in) Steve G was very complimentary about it, proclaiming the 'boxes to be the "bogs dollocks" (or something similar...) A big thumbs up for Quaife's new baby. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Home of the long-term, supercharged Duratec project Edited by - k80rum on 25 Sep 2009 08:17:56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 And what did Mr Steve g think of your engine 😬 Want to rent an 18th century Farmhouse in Rural Somerset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hi Ian A lot more than he thought of the suspension setup (which I'd warned him it wasn't!) general consensus was that the engine was too cammy. Both Steves mentioned they believed Duratec don't like wild cams too much and they ended up having to compensate the fuelling in a couple of points which messed up their nice smooth fuelling curves 😬 Sounded great and pulled like a train. I'll post the vid next week. Already planning the next improvement which will see a different head, cams, TBs and ECU as I want to follow the Ultimate Performance/SBD route. Watch this space for a sale of Duratec parts! One thing's for sure, the 'box is staying Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Home of the long-term, supercharged Duratec project Edited by - k80rum on 25 Sep 2009 08:18:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garibaldi Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Darren How did your gearbox oil change go....? Did mine at the weekend and it’s a pain in the Arse... I thought the Caterham 6 speeder was difficult to do the conventional way through the drain and fill ports on the side but the 60G... so little room to get the plugs out and the new oil in... Have fun... Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Sorry to hear that Gary ☹️ mine went okay - draining is a piece of proverbial because my drain plug ends up *just* underneath the drivers side lowered floor. This means I can get a 23mm socket and ratchet on it and get everything out. Filling on mine is about as easy as the cc 6-speeder I reckon; I drilled a 1" hole in the passenger tunnel side in the footwell. It just clears one of the tunnel struts but I can get a socket on the filler plug and withdraw it through the hole. I then use a flexible funnel through the hole to fill. Gauging when the level is still a bit of an art and involves waiting for the puddle on the floor to start, as I cant crane my head into the footwell far enough to see by eye I lied when I said it hadn't chucked out any oil, it was just too clear to see on a cursary glance. My catchtank just behind the front wishbone has about 150ml I'd guess but I'm going to measure it. I was warned that itd vent some and 'finds its own level' no leaks from seals that I can see so I'm happy its behaving. Some shots of the car/box in action on the rolling road are now up on Youtube. A search for "k80rum" should find them. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hi Darren, Out of interest how much oil did it take to re-fill your 60G box? I have the sequential box on my R500 and will be re-filling it after it’s been back to Quaife for the upgrade. I’ve found that filling the box insitu via the breather is a very easy exercise (no need to cut holes in the foot well) but you need to know how much oil to put in. As far as experience with this box, I’ve run it for 9 months now with no problems what so ever apart from the designed in oil leak (hence having to send it back to Quaife for the upgrade). It is very noisy (straight cut) but the slick change makes up for this and I’d be loath to change back to a H pattern box. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Mike, Thats how I refill mine (using the breather)...the refill is 1.9l if I remember rightly so I usually leave the dregs of 2 litre bottles and it seems to be ok... Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hi Mike, Like Gary, I'd say 1.9L (certainly on first filling). I've drained mine now but not refilled it yet. Initial fill was just under 2L so I'd expect very slightly less on the refill as I'm sure despite leaving it overnight to drain it's not as empty as it was the first time around. Hope this helps, Darren Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Darren, surely the 150ml of gearbox oil catched in your tank should be drawn back into the gearbox on the over run It should work a bit like your Raceline water rail thus hose needs to be submerged in gearbox oil My Elite does the same thing, but it draws the oil back in, on over run Want to rent an 18th century Farmhouse in Rural Somerset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hi Ian It might well do it I'd plumbed it properly My catch tank is a clear 1L drinks-bottle and I didnt' prime it with any oil or dip the end of the breather hose into said oil. As a result my breather hose is dangling above the expelled oil.. I've popped the engine out again so I'll rectify it while I work finalising my loom. Cheers for that Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Scott Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Hi Darren / Gary, Thanks for the info on oil capacities As I said, it’s dead easy to fill the box via the breather as long as you know how much to put in Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garibaldi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Ahhhh.... Fill it through the breather..... I just didn't think of that.........bollox....!!! BTW Quaife gave me the figure of 1.8l to fill the box.... Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruff seven Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 And whot is the choice of oils you are all using in your G60,s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I'm using Silkolene Pro SRG. I think its a 75w90.. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Edited by - k80rum on 3 Oct 2009 21:28:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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