Phil.Merry Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 As I have just replaced a CRB after 7,000 miles and the unit I got Caterham appears to be faulty in that it is showing early signs of failure from installation, i am very keen to see if there is an alternative to the Caterham standard unit. In short, I am looking for the Holy Grail in Utopia. In searching throught the archives, I came across this post from Mark Durrant on a special that he had made up in March 2004. I am very curious and even slightly anxious to find out how this unit perfomed. So Mark, please let us know ----------------------------------------------- Post from March 2004 ---------- Mark Durrant Yawn..... Location: Back on track Posted - 18 March 2004 5:50 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had a bearing start to make noises after 1,500 miles but it lasted another 4,000 miles until I had time to change it. I have now fitted an uprated brearing on an aluminium carrier (which had to be machined) and do not expect any further problems (fingers crossed). The only downside was the total cost of around £90. I'll let you know how long it lasts Mark D Su77on Se7ens Making plans for the 2004 Sprint Season Phil Merry - The only Bright Yellow 1.6K Supersport in Dublin - Boy does it get attention !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Good question Phil, I'd be interested too Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I suspect Mark is running with the same unit as mine. It's lasted fine for 18 months in a fairly agressive situation The parts are from Burton Power, the carrier is RD315A and the bearing is HD3259, not cheap at £80.70 inc delivery and VAT, it does however have the advantage of a bevelled front and therefore it's contact point on the clutch fingers is better than the older std INA bearing Be advised that the carrier does not come with any form of retaining it on the clutch fork, the std retaining springs don't fit and in the end I took advice and drilled the carrier and the fork and attached it using locking wire, this works fine but must be losely fitted to allow angular movement of the carrier. I think the theory is that if you are running preload then it can't fall off but I wasn;t comfortable with htis Lastly the clutch arm is made of something harder than anything known to man, I had it drilled by a local engineering firm who used a Diamond or tungsten tipped (I think) drill and needed to sharpen it several times Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Mark, You can drill the carrier, both sides of the key on the arm, and link the two holes with locking wire. Worked for me. K2RUM - The car of two halveswith a hole in the engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 CC are now supplying a changed bearing which doesn't have the castellated ring (bearing retainer?) on the inside. This was the part that broke on my car, and is what causes the graunching noise as the broken strips ride over each other. I've had the new type bearing in for over a year, several track days and 5 races with no problems. Martin Roadsports B with upgradeitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.Merry Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 The bearing that Mark Durrant referred to is the the one from Burton Power. The bearing that failed after 7,000 miles in my car was purchased from CC in March 2005 and appears to be identical to the one purchased this month, which failed immediately. I don't know if these are a later design. My present plan is to replace the CRB with a new CC unit in early September. When I changed the CRB recently, I believed the cause was the normal CRB failure issue and did not check out the clutch mechanism in detail to see if there was another fault that had caused the CRB failure. I will check this out this time and then see how the CC CRB lasts. If it doesn't then, I'll try the Burton unit Thanks for the feedback Phil Merry - The only Bright Yellow 1.6K Supersport in Dublin - Boy does it get attention !! Edited by - Phil.Merry on 15 Aug 2006 12:59:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteS Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I know this may have been done to death before, but I find myself in the situation where my lovely car sounds like a strangled goat ☹️ To be honest, its not the first time, it did it a couple of years ago but I adjusted the biting point a little and it went away. Recently I had a cable snap and since I've put the new one on, no matter how I adjust it, I get the squelling when I put my foot on the cluth pedal. Looks like I have to bite the bullet on this one and get it changed... I'm waiting for Caterham service to call me back and tell me how much... I'm not mechanically minded enough to change it myself so will certainly have to get someone to do it... I don't yet know what it will cost but I know the part (at least the standard one from CC) is quite cheap... So, given my lack of spannerability, what should I do? Go to Caterham and get them to fit the standard item? Any other options or recommendations gratefully received.... Thanks P. PS - its a 2000 registered 1.8k with the 6 speed... 14k on the clock and its the original CRB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Still using the uprated bearing and carrier (as per F355GTS post) now fitted to my R500 with no issues Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Does the carrier from Burtons have to be machined at all? I seem to remember a post by Arnie a while back, that mentioned something about machining being needed for the Burton bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Yes it required machining Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_C Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Stuart Faulds changed the clutch and bearing in mine for a lot less than Caterham wanted. Depending where you are in London it might not be too far up for you either. He often posts on here, so try a search for his details. BTW please give generously to Bundle's Big Charity Walk for Asthma research here Ta. Cheers Tom FH54WLX see here - UPDATED again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I've used a VW CRB - off a PD TDI Golf, and made up my own spacer between the Burton thing nearest the gearbox as here the bit with the "M" on is supplied by Burton. The bearing has an integral slave cylinder. I've used a narrow track brake hose from a bespoke "brake pipe" connecting the master cylinder to the hose. I may be able to reproduce the complete assembly if there's enough interest, but haven't got a clue about the cost. It has yet to let me down after a fair bit of heavy abuse... /regin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethemook Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 My CRB packed up last week on the way to Le mans. I asked for a quote from Taylor Foundry Motorsport near Cambridge and they wanted approx £300+parts for fitting. 😳 So I decided to do it myself last Sat..Got the CRB from Redline ..£10.. and fitted it with a mate of mine. This is the first time Ive took out an engine ever.. The new CRB has a plastic look to it and seems loose and not up to the job but after todays Blat I can confirm it works ..for how long who knows. I read everything about CRB/Engine removal / Bleeding the cooling system from Blatchat and it gave me the confidence to do it. Still a 🙆🏻 to bleed though . Steve Novice in a Nova Violet Brute.S777 XTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 You want a bleed tee then. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteS Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Thanks Tom_C, I've emailed Stuart. I've had the quote from CC - ouch I'll try a few of the others that advertise around here too... The CC supplied one doesn't instill me with confidence really, so I guess ideally I need someone that would be willing and able to supply/machine/fit something like the Burton one. I would love to be able to do it myself, but no chance at the mo, lack of time, space and a distinct lack of knowledge/experience mean its something best left to the experts... one day though! Maybe I'll ask if I can watch/help when I get it done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I dont wish to challenge the accepted wisdom of running pre-load on the CRB.......but I don't run any pre-load on mine & so far haven't had any issues. I think I understand the reasons that the mfrs give for running the bearing with pre-load, but I cant help thinking that that little bearing running at engine speed under load all the time can't be any good for it's life expectancy. I tried this as a bit of an experiment after I last had the engine out as the life expectancy when everything's done by the book is nothing to get excited about. 😳 D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 but I cant help thinking that that little bearing running at engine speed under load all the time can't be any good for it's life expectancy. That was exactly my view too until I asked the manufacturer of my CRB (INA) for advice after I suffered two premature failures. They were adamant that, without a pre-load of 80-120N, the life of the bearing would be short indeed, due to extremely high acceleration rates whenever the clutch was operated, leading to severe overheating and loss of lubricant. They pointed out that the main user of their bearing (Ford) also applied the recommended pre-load. This subject was pretty well beaten to death a few years ago. I did a piece for Low Flying (Aug 2004) describing a pre-load mod I'd applied to my car. I've still got the article (Word doc) if anyone wants a copy. And yes, the mod does seem to work -- I've done 22k miles since on the same (INA) CRB. BTW, there does seem to be another possible cause of premature CRB failure: misalignment (mis-machining?) of the flywheel. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.Merry Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 Firstly I must say it is strange to see my original thread surface after nearly a year! Unbelievably shortly after the original posting, the CRB stopped making the graunching noise and up to now with about 4,000 miles, including three track days, it continues to operate perfectly. I am confused and relieved, however I will not be surprised to hear the noise reappear at some stage. Phil Merry - Driving a BRIGHT YELLOW Seven in Dublin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Phil, I guess it depends on which CRB you have. The original one (from INA) required a pre-load of 80-120N. The "new" one (from SKF) requires, I believe, a lower pre-load in the region of 40-50N. From my discussions on this topic with Caterham Cars in 2003/04, the lower pre-load appears to be just about achievable via the standard clutch pedal return spring. If that is the case, I would expect the SKF CRB to be relatively more reliable. However, it puzzled me at the time, and still does now, why CC chose to opt for a different CRB rather than simply increasing the pre-load on the INA unit. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 CC have consistently denied there's ever been an issue with the CRB, their attitude has always been that the part is used in its millions by Ford without any problem, so there's no problem in a Caterham. Interesting to read John Vine's comments *arrowup* . I got as far as an email discussion with Simon Nearn about it, and 'robust denial' would just about sum up his attitude. The replacement CRB I fitted 2 years ago or so has been fine, it's the new SKF one, and I've tweaked the clutch spring as per John's article to increase the preload. The original failed within a year and 3k miles. ("it's a race car sir, sorry, we don't warrant the drivetrain.....") Replacement is a bit of a drag but not difficult - I did it with the engine still in the car. Martin Aero'd supersported ex-Roadsports B...anyone got a cheap LSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Put pre-load on mine after reading John's article. 4 years later 10k and still fine - Kiss of death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteS Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 I spoke to the guy at the '7 Workshop' about this the other day... he seems to be of the opinion that it may not be so much the part itself as the installation, when he replaces them he has to make a mod to some sort of widget (forgive the ignorance) which he feels 'is a little too long' (if I remember correctly)... might be worth someone with a little more knowledge giving him a shout? (Dicky?) Would explain why the part has worked fine in other applications...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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