skydragon

Dad- so you are seeing an approximate 13 Deg C delta between thermostat and coolant leaving the block. I went for a PRRT rather than a in-line thermostat, as it gives a higher coolant flow rate and therefore some significant advantages over a remote thermostat. (I'm not saying a remote stat doesn't work, just that a PRRT is better, at least in theory)

I've been reading through some old threads regarding coolant temperatures on K-series and a few things puzzle me. background; On a K-series, whether you have a normal thermostat fitted, or a PRRT fitted, the thermostat is fitted on the inlet side of the engine. When up to temperature, hot coolant is fed into the engine and this coolant temperature entering the engine is determined by the thermostat (providing that the water pump and radiator are working ok). So in the case of a 82 deg thermostat, or a 82 deg PRRT unit, the coolant entering the engine should be at 82 deg C. The engine is hot and the purpose of the coolant is to take heat away from the engine and cool it. So, if we have 82 degC coolant entering the engine, by the time it has flowed around the engine and exited the other side, it will have absorbed heat from the engine and increased in temperature. Let's say it's gained a 8 deg C rise in temperature as it takes heat away from the engine, that now makes the coolant leaving the engine at around 90 degC. The temperature sensors on a K-series are normally located on the water rail where the coolant first exits the block. So in the case above they should read around 90 deg C, if you had a 82 degC thermostat. The 90 Deg C hot coolant now flows around to the radiator and cooling circuit and is eventual returned back to the thermostat or PRRT, having first being cooled down to a temperature of less than 82DegC... and the whole coolant flow cycle starts again. My car has a tuned 1.8k and has a 82 DegC PRRT (standard grey PEL500110 from Land Rover) fitted. My ECU and digital dash both read a very steady 92 Deg C when the engine is fully up to temperature (temp gauge and probe are calibrated and correct). I guess this means on my engine, there is an approx 10 deg C heat delta between inlet and outlet of coolant (if the PRRT is indeed working as claimed at 82 DegC). My query is - In other posts where people are using 82 DegC stats or PRRTs, I've read people saying they get approx 80 deg temperatures at the temp gauge - I just don't see how this can be possible, unless; (a) the thermostat/PRRT is actually opening far earlier than 82Deg C (b) the engine is cooling the coolant rather than heating it up by the laws of physics the coolant leaving the engine has to be warmer than that entering it. Question 1 -What temperatures are people seeing on their K-series and with what thermostats (presuming your temp gauge is accurate) ?? Question 2 - Is there such a thing as a PRT or PRRT with a lower temp than 82 DegC? My car has been running fine at 92DegC for a few years now. But if I had the option I'd like to reduce the temperatures by 5 Deg C or so. The lowest land rover PRRT is 82DegC, but I'm guessing someone must make an alternative? Thanks.

I've a PRRT fitted on my K-series car. What side of the PRRT is supposed to determine when the thermostat opens - the bypass circuit side, or the radiator output side ?? ie. does the temperature of the coolant in the bypass circuit open the thermostat, or does the temp of the coolant from the output of the radiator open the thermostat? Edited by - Skydragon on 2 Mar 2013 21:30:44 Edited by - Skydragon on 2 Mar 2013 21:32:23

*thumbup* Thank you Evans Coolants *smile* *smile*

If I were you I'd contact Road and Race. They can supply and fit a Titan LSD unit to your existing diff casing and come highly recommended (Road & Race Transmissions, Filston Farm, Filston Lane, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 5JU. Phone: 01959 525105) BTW - where in Yorks are you? Edited by - skydragon on 28 Feb 2013 17:42:19

Pot Noodle at each event please (assorted and varied flavours please, to avoid getting bored, filled with hot water, stirred thoroughly and served approx 5 mins afterwards). There a few events where I could also do with a lift to/from the curry house and/or pub too please. See Robmar, he isn't a welsh sheep%%%%% like you said the other week, but a really helpful bloke. Cheers Simon 😬 😬 😬 😬

Simon - Great news ref the numbers for this season, far more efficient, thanks Question - is it possible you can also let the organizers of the Marshall's sprint at Curborough know this system too (if you haven't already) so we don't have to use different numbers on the Saturday events at Curbs. Thanks

...I know this will infuriate some of the Kumho tyre users ( 🙆🏻 ) in the club....but I'm delighted to announce that I've just won an Avon Motorsports jacket in a prize draw 😬 😬 😬 I shall take great pride in wearing it around the paddock 😬 😬 😬 A24 compound ZZR's....my precious 🥰 😬

....as long as you let me win David, I don't really care 😬 If you do beat me, I'll just blame it on the fact you are 'morally bankrupt' in your choice of dampers *smile* Edited by - skydragon on 8 Feb 2013 13:45:23

Simples....use proper wheel nets like these here I use a small-size set of these on my seven and they work a treat. Fast to use and far better than straight tie-down straps. fwiw - i use a set on the rear wheels only and then also attach the winch cable tightly to the front towing eye. HTH

Thanks

Chris, to avoid any confusion, can you please confirm my form went through ok. Thanks.

Partial answer to my questions above; The FIA padding test, as I understand it, states that a 7kg 'head' travelling at 7 metres a second will be slowed down to a maximum allowable peak of 300G when it impacts with the roll bar padding. ie. if you whacked your head against a roll bar covered in FIA padding at approx 16mph the resulting impact would be a maximum allowable peak of approx 300G impact force Ono et al. 1980 (human cadaver and scaled monkey data), states that the threshold for skull fracture in a human is circa 200G for approx 3 Millisecs and that the threshold for concussion in a human is circa 150G for approx 3 Millisecs. This suggests that if you hit your head on a FIA padded rollbar at a head-to-padding impact speed of 16mph you would suffer a skull fracture. A motorsports helmet seems to offer a similar level of blunt force impact protection, in that for Snell SAK2010 tests, a helmet is impacted at a similar speed (7.75 metres/sec) into a static test anvil and the resulting maximum allowable impact force is 275G. Interesting again to note that an approx 16mph impact into a solid object whilst wearing a helmet, would again result in a severe head injury. If you combine the padding and the helmet together, you appear to get double the impact protection. 16mph does not seem to be a fast impact speed when considering what might happen, even in a relatively slow crash It seems sensible to use both padding and a helmet. Edited by - skydragon on 5 Feb 2013 17:32:54

Therefore any padding designed to minimize the acceleration on a helmeted head should also minimize the acceleration on an unhelmeted head. Totally Agree. But that doesn't mean that the padding alone will protect you. What I'd be interested in knowing is; If we presume 'x' is the point at which brain trauma typically starts to be caused, by a blow to an unprotected human head by a certain level of blunt impact force (I appreciate there are probably lots of variables in terms of how/Where a blow can be made). - Typically, what is 'x' - How much does a motorsport standards helmet reduce 'x' - How much does a motorsport standards helmet and say 20mm of dense foam padding reduce 'x' Anyone on BC involved in safety science and who knows the facts about this?

Roger; The FIA (rock hard) padding is designed to be used with a helmet - ie. the density and size are designed and optimized for impact protection with a helmeted head, not a bare head. FIA regs >>“Where the occupants' crash helmets could come into contact with the safety cage, the padding must comply with FIA standard 8857-2001, type A (...) and must be permanently fixed to the cage.”>A head form weighing 6.8kg and fitted with an acceloromet had to pass a dynamic impact test of 7.0 metres/second with a peak acceleration of 300g in both hot (38deg C) and cold (7deg C) conditions Edited by - skydragon on 5 Feb 2013 09:41:01

just to add info to this thread; I eventually used safety devices multipurpose padding, which gives approx 16mm of hard padding. It's not quite as hard as FIA padding, but is close and must be 10 times harder than the soft 'pipe-lagging' type padding you sometimes see for sale (if that makes sense) The smallest size (38mm dia) is a bit too large in internal diameter for our roll cages, but can be easily made to fit by cutting off a small strip (4-5mm) along one inner edge. I first used a few tie-wraps and then encased the whole tube, by tightly spiral-wrapping it in in black insulating tape. It won't move or rotate at all and fits a treat.

As Guy says, the safety devices multipurpose padding can be easily made to fit by cutting off a small strip (4-5mm) along one inner edge. I first used a few tie-wraps and then encased the whole tube, by tightly spiral-wrapping it in in black insulating tape. It won't move or rotate at all and fits a treat. Regarding wearing a helmet with a roll cage, there was a long thread about this recently. The long and short is.... whether you use no padding at all, or 'nice soft' padding or rock hard padding, if you have a bad accident and your unprotected head impacts against the roll cage (which it probably will) you will probably suffer serious injury or death. To think that soft padding will somehow help protect your head whilst not wearing a helmet more than hard padding would, is missing the point. Rollbar padding is to try and help protect you further, whilst wearing a helmet, as an additional safety measure - not to replace wearing a helmet. Wearing a helmet whilst using a seven on the road isn't everyone's cup of tea and I know some people have a hard time accepting the above, which is sad, as ultimately it may cost someone's life. If you can't bring yourself to wear a helmet (and I do understand the negatives of it), there is a really easy solution - remove the roll cage and fit a roll over bar

I've just padded my cage, using safety devices multipurpose padding As shown on this page here

+1 as above - may just need calibrating. Or...may just need a new lambda probe I bought mine from here have a look at the LC-1 manual here

Scavenge pump degeneration was almost certainly the cause of one of my engine blow ups were there any warning signs? what lifespan/usage do you feel is realistic? Roughly how much is a refurb?

You never know what will be on the car this year - still not decided who knows what the morally bankrupt will be using this year... 😬 😬 😬

Yes, the cap does work in practice. You get a text as you come close to your limit, then a another text as you reach the 25MB limit. Then you get charged at a per MB rate up to the cap, at which point your data service does not work anymore. In practice 25MB is quite a lot of data usage. I also use a iphone app which monitors and reports data usage in real time. eg. i can easily see that I have used 'x'% of my daily allowance.

Quoting skydragon: I've got a iPhone on a 25MB a day data tariff which works throughout Europe and I use to teher my laptop to, but I usually buy a 'local' USB dongle for less glamorous destinations outside EU... I have a friend who is looking for something like that to use in France: could you give the details, please? I bought a iPhone from Vodafone on a 2 year contract. They provide an option called Vodafone Data Traveller (details here Basically you pay a fixed monthly rate, as per a normal phone contract, but when you use data abroad you are charged £2 for up to 25MB usage, for just the day you use it. ie. if you went abroad and used the internet for 3 days, at less that 25MB a day, you would be charged a total of £6. It also works in most countries outside EU, at a higher rate. I've found it to work very well in EU. If you are a regular traveller outside EU, you need to be careful and check that the country is supported. Otherwise you can very quickly clock up a £40 bill (capped) as I found out in Russia recently. The iPhone can be used as a WiFi hotspot, so you can connect a laptop, or ipad to the iPhone via wifi and gain access to the internet. In 3G areas it works very well. Edited by - skydragon on 25 Jan 2013 12:36:57

To add; Don't know what current tariff you are on, but you can buy a data bundle from Orange to access 30MB a day at a sensible cost. Might be worth adding this onto your current dongle, just for the month. I don't think it is available for PAYG though (?) see here

Depending on where exactly you will be staying, I'd suggest buying a pre-loaded or pay-as-you-go dongle at the airport in Portugal or at a local mobile phone shop when you arrive. Usually they are fairly cheap/easy to buy and on local rates you'll find you can get quite a generous data allowance for say 10 Euros. I've got a iPhone on a 25MB a day data tariff which works throughout Europe and I use to teher my laptop to, but I usually buy a 'local' USB dongle for less glamorous destinations outside EU...