AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 For all you Duratec lovers (and haters) out there I have some news of new products available. First of all Kent cams have extended their range of cams bringing the number of profiles available up to seven. Durations vary between 260 and 310 degrees. Dual springs, top collars and bottom locating collars are now also available. Had an email from the States to say a new Duratec has been lauched by Mazda. It is a direct injection turbo unit to be used in the Mazda 6. Two inlet ports per cylinder, one round and one square, very similar to the V8 Ford quad cam 4.6 litre engine. If the heads are in fact similar to the V8 then they are still very tuneable although the two ports do flow differently. For most applications the N/A engine is still the way to go. Also the N/A Ford engine is likely to be a lot cheaper than the Mazda unit as a donor engine. Conventinal, not heated, thermostats are available from Mazda. Thanks to Bob Corb and Mick Attree for that one. I got one in stock to have a look at. Same bolt pattern but the angle of the inlet is slightly different and longer. I offered it up to my car and it will fit with an angled hose. In close collaboration with Emerald an ECU wiring loom is currently being made for me. This has sequential injection, thermostat control and atmospheric sensor for map correction at altitude. These will be made commercially, so will be available to all very soon. Up until now we have had to make looms which is a major pain. Dave Walker seems to have embraced all things Duratec and is a big fan of the engine, which helps when it comes to getting stuff made. We are also discussing the possibility of using my car to develop the traction control. A new road dry sump system is being developed that uses only one scavenge pump and retains the original chain driven feed pump internally. Should be available in the next few months and make installation a lot easier than with the Pace twin scavenge and single feed. This interferes with the L/H engine mount. With the help of Luke Beaumont I am trying to get some engine mounts made that can be used with the Pace system. Personally I think for road use and occasional track days that the wet sump is OK. Steel cranks for the 2 litre are being made to cater for classes with capacity restrictions. All steel Duratecs will rev happily to 9000+ rpm. I will not quote potential power figure here as this will open a whole can of worms. Let's say that the power will be "sufficient" at a price that is "affordable". Under parallel development is a big bore 2.4 or 2.5 litre Duratec intended for rallying to take on the Warrior and Millington engines that dominate some classes. Both the engines should be developed by the end of the year ready for next season. Brise are making alternator mounts to fit the larger Denso alternator. This is used by Minister on their installations. Will not fit with all exhaust systems. When space is tight, the bracketry by Mick Attree works beautifully with the smaller Denso alternator. The Raceline low profile cam cover is now available in black crinkle finish. Looks quite elegant. Covers acan still be supllied unpainted for those who want to be a bit creative with the colour of their engine. I am trying to convince Raceline to cast these in magnesium to save some weight. Also in black crinkle finish are Jenvey throttle bodies which used to be red. I have just ordered some 48mm bodies as the 45 DTH supplied by Raceline which are used for most applications, run out of puff on the more powerful engines. I was not a fan of the red TBs. Spoke to AP racing about the clutch that is used on Duratecs. It is rated at 177 lb ft with a safety margin of 1.3. This means that even the more torquey engines should not pose a problem, especially in a light car like the Seven. As AP seem to be having lots of enquiries about this engine a heavier duty version of this clutch will be available soon, just in case. Heavy duty big end shells are already available for the 2 litre. Hopefully some will be available for the 2.3 by the end of the month. I exchanged notes with the guy who is in charge of development at Cosworth and he confirmed that the 260bhp CSR engine is on stock shells. Having stripped a lot of high mileage Zetecs I can honestly say that Ford's metallurgy is spot on. No reason to believe that they would not have paid the same care and attention to the Duratec as the good old Zetec. Looking to see if the 2 litre timing cover is adaptable to the 2.3 with an additional spacer to make up the difference in block heights. This is for transverse applications such as the conversion Eliseparts are doing on Elises and Exiges. A rubber plug and steady bracket are available for the starter motor. Thanks to Luke Beaumont again for this as he spotted them on a parts CD. The plug fits between the block and motor and stops debris getting into the bell housing. The bracket fits between the block and the end of the starter motor. I didn't know these existed til Luke told me. That's it folks! AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 "Two inlet ports per cylinder, one round and one square" - what are the techie reasons for this Ammo? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Mike Emissions. Tumble and swirl. On the V8 the injector fired into only one of the ports. Both ports (but at least one) had pronounced tumble features if my memory serves me well. The engine was used for GTO racing and went very well once modified. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 AMMO, does Dave Walker have some base maps available for the 2.3 now? I always liked the Emerald on my Zetec for its 'playability' where you could tweak it yourself as necessary. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV. Gad these things are expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Thanks Ammo. I guess tumble & swirl help to promote good even cylinder filling. I've got some graphs of measured tumble & swirl for a stock K-series head somewhere... not that they make much sense to me. I wonder how it's measured? Anyway, I'll stop hijacking your thread now. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taran Las Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Ammo, Interesting reading - but those Duratecs are just a passing fad 😬 😬 😬 Philip. D. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Disclaimer. I would like to state that none of the contents of my posts are intended for Welshmen who own vehicles powered by pushrod operated engines. No debate will be entered with such individuals. Pisstaking, however, is not only acceptable but actively encouraged. 😬 Mike Swirl and tumble are measured with specially made fixtures on a flowbench. A friend works at Lotus Engineering and has made some of these pieces of equipment. They were also available commercially from a company called Quadrant who seem to have disappeared from the face of the planet. They were more famous for making the "Cam Doctor" which measured all sorts of useful cam information. Swirl and tumble are not important in race engines as they limit peak flow which is bad for power. So absolutely of no interest to me whatsoever. 😬 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Brent Not sure about base maps. I get Dave to map all the cars on the rolling road. Affordable so not worth getting involved in it myself. He can do a better job than I could ever do in a fraction of the time. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Ammo Do you have part numbers for the starter motor bits? Are they Ford parts? Also with regard to the Raceline DTHTB`s how far can I take the 2.0 before they start causing a problem. My initial plan is 185bhp now, 220/230 next winter......will the DTHTB`s still be OK to 250bhp if I decide to go further? Now thinking about 9000rpm duratec.........damn......I`ll need to buy a new tacho 😬 Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi Ammo, Thanks for the update, couple of questions.. 1: Do the Conventinal thermostats replace the whole water outlet at the front of the engine? 2: I thought the 2.0 big end bearings were the same as the 2.3, are the journals a diff size? 3: Don't suppose you have part numbers for Starter plug and Conventinal thermostat? 4: Do you know of any noise supression systems to filter out WWN (Welshman White Noise)? Finally how do we get a copy of the parts CD? Cheers, Neil Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 ehh. 250 Simes...... the games on 😬 Whats the bets JJ goes 2.5 😬 Emerald Isle's 1st SV 148lbft @ 6091rpm/182bhp @ 6690rpm engineered for low revs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 and when's a carbon airbox going to be available 🤔 R400 Duratec 230bhp Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Simon 45 DTH will be fine for 250 bhp. Starter motor part numbers I have at the workshop. I will email you the numbers when I have them. Neil The thermostat is a complete new plastic housing and stat. Part number from Mazda is LF50 15170. Costs around £60.00. Big end journals are bigger on the 2.3 so shells are different. Phil "those Duratecs are just a passing fad" Don't know about passing fad but definately be passing you! AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Rubber plug is 1218379 Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taran Las Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Ammo, The speed you work on your car and the time it takes you to finish your car projects we will have run out of fossil fuel. I bet you haven't installed that new rev counter yet! Neil - I have to butt in now and again just to keep young Ammo on his toes 😬 😬 😬 Philip. D. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Phil You won't believe this but I lost the tacho! I've looked everywhere for it. It must have been at least 16" across. Time for a visit to the opticians 😬 And less of the "young Ammo". I know you are taking the rise. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7sRWild Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Steel cranks for the 2 litre are being made to cater for classes with capacity restrictions. All steel Duratecs will rev happily to 9000+ rpm. Who makes them AMMO? And would you happen to have an idea on the approximate cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 And less of the "young Ammo". I know you are taking the rise. Compared to Phil, you are young, as are most of the rest of us *tongue* Back on topic, do you know roughly what bhp a 2.3 litre Duratec would make on stock cams etc but with TB's and an Emerald ? Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Nick You have a point. The majority of us are young in comparison to Phil. Funny how that really doesn't make me feel any better. Forget about stock engines. Can't see the point. The 2.3 has low compression and crappy cams. I think the stock 2.3 I loaned to Guy Evans to try the installation in the Elise made only around 160 bhp. You can get that out of a stock 2 litre Zetec. On the other hand I think the stock 2 litre Duratec with 10.8:1 CR and slightly better (but still pathetic) cams makes around 185 /190 bhp. This is what I have heard the Sports 2000 cars make. These engines come into their own once you chuck a bit of money at them. 7sRWild Cranks will be around £1,350.00 + VAT. They will be to my specification and probably not available for general consumption until later in the year once they have been tested. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 just to keep young Ammo on his toes 🙆🏻 *eek* Sorry Phil, thats just tooo much for my warped imagination to deal with 😬 Duratec Se7en SV, built in Dubai, pics here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 I'm sure there is some sort of stealth insult in there. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taran Las Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 😬 😬 😬 😬 Philip. D. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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