Tony C Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 At 18000 miles on my 2003 K-Series, six speed SV I've just experienced a NASTY series of squeals from the CRB. It happened last night and again several times today. After operating temperature had been reached with car stationary, foot on clutch - head turning noise, like a goat being strangled inside the bellhousing Also an occasional sound like a flock of Budgies inside the bellhousing when driving (chirping not flapping wings) - I can silence the Budgies by lightly pressing the clutch pedal - the goat by depressing the clutch pedal several times. I've just read the historical posts on this issue, including the manufacturers advice to increase the pre-load on the CRB - I guess I'm too late to try that now I'll call Simon Lambert tomorrow, but don't anticipate much help from Caterham. I don't care what anyone says, the CRB should last at least the life of the clutch. Despite Caterham's historical apparent lack of interest, has anyone managed to get them to show any interest in this lack of CRB longevity? I removed the gaiter to see if I could see anything interesting, but apart from minor evidence of faint grease threads from what I assume is the gap between the two spinning pieces and some minor evidence of rust like dust at the release lever/CRB interface - nothing looked broken. I don't really look forward to removing the engine and consider Caterham should change the CRB free - yeh right ! BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Tin Man Posted March 17, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted March 17, 2004 Tony , Just done mine in January 15,000. I phoned Caterham & they said that it was not a common problem ❗ You can replace the bearing by sliding the engine forward as I did, there is enough room to get your hand in & replace the bearing. Mine looked ok when I removed it, but with the new bearing i am squeal free Just got the cylinder head gasket to change now ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 "Not a common problem". I wonder how many people on hear have had one fail. I did on my first seven at about 13,000 miles. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I had a bearing start to make noises after 1,500 miles but it lasted another 4,000 miles until I had time to change it. I have now fitted an uprated brearing on an aluminium carrier (which had to be machined) and do not expect any further problems (fingers crossed). The only downside was the total cost of around £90. I'll let you know how long it lasts ❗ Mark D Su77on Se7ens Making plans for the 2004 Sprint Season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Mark, where did you get your uprated bearing from, if I may ask 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I purchased the bearing and carrier from 'Burton Power' in Ilford, Essex. Tel No. 020 8554 2281. The part no.'s are: carrier - RD315A, releaese bearing - HD3259. You will have to purchase both as it is not possible to fit the bearing to the 'Caterham' carrier. The bearing carrier needs to be machined as it is too long and also has to be machined to accept the spring clips that locate the carrier to the clutch fork. I have a couple of pictures that I can mail to you. Mark D Su77on Se7ens Making plans for the 2004 Sprint Season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Yes please! Mark - YHM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Tony: I’ve had lots of problems with crb’s failing, as can be seen in the archives! You’re lucky it’s lasted that long, I’ve had them start squeeling at less than 3000 miles. I increased the pre-load on the last one I fitted, by shortening the spring and so far so good… Good luck with getting any help from Caterham… Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Mark, YHM I'd really apreciate any pics you have. It seems logical that there is an inherent problem with the whole clutch release mechanism, not just the CRB, for these problems to occur at relatively low mileage. Previouse research points to the inadequate pre-load provided by the Caterham set-up. I don't want to go to the trouble of just changing the CRB, only for the same problem to re-occur after another 18000 miles 🙆🏻 I don't anticipate a favourable response from Caterham, but I'll keep you posted 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevSull Too Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Tony, how about trying to collect a list owners who have changed their CRB and at what milage. You can then present this to CC when they say that there is no history of this problem happening. I changed mine at around 11000 (1.8 with 6 speed) 😬You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Excuse my being thick, but what is the preload being talked about above? Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Dave, If I understand it correctly, I believe that the crb should have a pre-load against the clutch pressure plate fingers such that it is spinning with the clutch. I believe that was the way it was designed to operate in the original Sierra installation and the solution is to increase the spring tension holding the crb against the clutch. Not sure by how much though. I think Dave H is the man with all the info on this? Brent Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 18 Mar 2004 10:13:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Have a look here Dave. Rob Board in particular plus John Vine and Nick Green and others have already done a "shed load" of research on this. Put (clutch and release and bearing) into the search facility for Tech Talk over the last 2 years and read all about it 😬 I'll make a separate post to survey CRB failures - let's hear it guys 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Damn it, you beat me to it Tony 😬 Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thanks all Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Tony C and others, You will see in earlier posts that I am concerned about the clutch adjustment on my K-Series 1.8 VVC engine. The build manual says that you should set up the clutch adjuster (hydraulic mechanism in this case) so that there is some free play at the top of the fork, i.e. no pre-load on the CRB. If I do this, I cannot easily select gears. If I alter the adjustment, so that, in effect, the CRB is pre-loaded, then I can, just, select gears but I am conscious of the CRB rotating permanently (you can hear it). All the research that Tony C has referred to indicates that this pre-loading is the desired state of affairs and that the bearing is designed to run that way. Please, folks, advise me I need the car to be fully mobile, for demonstration purposes, tomorrow (Friday). Should I back off the adjuster to get free play or should I take up the adjustment to pre-load the bearing 🤔 This question was put to Dartford last week, and again this week, but, so far, there has been no response TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Pre-load the bearing - that bearing was designed to have pre-load. There's loads of stuff in the archives about this Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Dave_H, I have just had a long telephone conversation with Simon Lambert. He says "We have been running this assembly since the '80s and the bearings are always UNLOADED". He also says that they do not get a significant number of CRB failures reported to them. This leaves me with the problem of gear selection TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Where's Rob Board when you need him 🤔 He did loads of research into this: Click here Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 The Caterham bearing is not unloaded, not if fitted as per Caterham's method. There is clearly a spring holding the CRB against the clutch fingers. The problem, according to INA, the manufacturer of the bearings, who have seen some of the Caterham-knackered CRBs, is a lack of pre-load, ie the spring is not strong enough. There is nothing wrong with the CRB itself. It does service in many older Fords and TVRs, as well as Caterhams. An empirical survey of various K-7 owners I know, would indicate that Simon isn't talking to the same people I am. Just about every K-ster I know has had a CRB squeal, including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 I've just sent an e-mail to Simon Lambert outlining my CRB woes, to see what the initial response will be. As has been stated in the previous threads on this subject, the bearing manufacturers recommend a pre-load, but also that the whole clutch operating system may be "dodgy" and that the CRB failure may only be the result of a combination of other factors. Personally I'd like to cure my CRB failure problem at the first attempt and don't want to merely replace the failed CRB. Mark's solution seems to be a good long term bet 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 hmmm sounds like I have this problem as well Only after 4-5k on the clocks, and it all started with a strong burning clutch smell then a very loud horrible noise Can anyone recommend any parts that could be "improved" whilst I am getting this repaired? Edited by - knowley on 20 Mar 2004 10:41:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Hi Knowley I (like others, I’m sure) am becoming increasingly reluctant to comment or share experiences on this subject, for fear of being shot down in flames by the “I’m alright Jack” brigade, who would have you believe the problem was caused by the way you built the car or by your driving technique (which it obviously wasn’t). I suggest you do a search of the archives and draw your own conclusions I have increased the spring tension of the clutch pedal of my car, by shortening the spring. Hopefully this has helped, but I won’t know for sure until I’ve put some more miles on the clock – which I won’t be doing in this weather. ☹️ Good luck. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 IMHO, a strong burning clutch smell is unlikely to be related to the CRB. The CRB is a fairly simple interface device, between the rotating part of the clutch and the stationary clutch release mechanism. The CRB interface between stationary and rotating is, I think, a roller bearing. BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Dave, sorry I meant should I upgrade the clutch whilst the repairs are being done... if so what clutch is a good upgrade without going to a race padel thing. Thanks Tony, I really hope its not the gearbox rattling. I have drive in all gears, and the noise seems louder in the cockpit to the engine bay - but it does disappear with the clutch pedel depressed. Also some rust on the plate was pointed out to me. Well shes going to a mechanic early next week I hope, so I should know the cause soon - and the bill ☹️ Edited by - knowley on 20 Mar 2004 17:29:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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