John Vine Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 48 minutes ago, 7 wonders of the world said: And glycol and OAT are not compatible. I'm not sure I follow that. (Ethylene) glycol is common to practically all antifreeze, IAT and OAT included. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 10 minutes ago, John Vine said: I'm not sure I follow that. (Ethylene) glycol is common to practically all antifreeze, IAT and OAT included. JV I think they use a propylene glycol base for OAT. Ethylene glycol isn’t compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Mine was thoroughly flushed through by Premier Power then after a few hundred miles I replaced the coolant with new. Just to be sure. Each time this crops up I never know what to make of it all. Perhaps Radtec see more problems with OAT because that’s what the vast majority of cars use - although their photos do seem to show that the coolant has caused damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 2 Member Share Posted January 2 25 minutes ago, John Vine said: (Ethylene) glycol is common to practically all antifreeze, IAT and OAT included. Comma G30 and MOTUL Inugel Optimal are both based on ethylene glycol. https://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/351 https://www.motul.com/tm/en/products/inugel-optimal` Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 2 Member Share Posted January 2 3 minutes ago, StevehS3 said: Each time this crops up I never know what to make of it all. Perhaps Radtec see more problems with OAT because that’s what the vast majority of cars use - although their photos do seem to show that the coolant has caused damage. Yes, that's possible. First fill will be with coolant recommended by Caterham. And so will most subsequent fills... unless a problem has come to light. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Has anyone in here ever seen damage other than a.simple leak? Eg corrosion, build up of solids. Can’t say I ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamscotticus Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, StevehS3 said: Bluecol has excellent compatibility with [I think] all engines and can even be mixed with other coolants. Can the "other" coolants be mixed with Bluecool? Perhaps with Glycol coolants, but I wouldn't try it with OATs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, Iamscotticus said: Can the "other" coolants be mixed with Bluecool? Perhaps with Glycol coolants, but I wouldn't try it with OATs. I don't understand that. Most, if not all, OAT coolants are glycol-based - that is, the main ingredient is ethylene glycol. The term OAT describes the inhibitor technology. JV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 hours ago, ScottR400D said: I think they use a propylene glycol base for OAT. Ethylene glycol isn’t compatible. I don't understand that either. OAT coolants are generally ethylene-glycol based. Propylene glycol would only be used if toxicity was a major concern. JV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 3 Area Representative Share Posted January 3 (edited) I am still running the same rad from build in 2013. Cooling system filled with OAT. No problems in eleven years. Of course that statement has now put a curse on the car ! Edited January 3 by Geoff Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Geoff, your running the engine over winter regime may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 14 hours ago, Jonathan Kay said: Comma G30 and MOTUL Inugel Optimal are both based on ethylene glycol. https://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/351 https://www.motul.com/tm/en/products/inugel-optimal` Jonathan Comma say that G30 "protects Ford", whereas Motul (Inugel Optimal) specifically quote Ford spec WSS-M97B44-D. Motul also say "Do not mix with non-organic products", by which I assume they mean IAT (inorganic additive technology) coolants. Personally, I use G30 exclusively in my R400D, with no problems to date. JV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 49 minutes ago, Geoff Brown said: I am still running the same rad from build in 2013. Cooling system filled with OAT. No problems in eleven years. Of course that statement has now put a curse on the car ! Not bad, Geoff! The rad in my 2008 R400D sprung a leak in 2009 (16 months after build, mileage 9K), which CC kindly replaced FOC: Since then, no problems at all (current mileage around 53K). Maybe I'm looked on favourably by the cooling gods. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, John Vine said: Not bad, Geoff! The rad in my 2008 R400D sprung a leak in 2009 (16 months after build, mileage 9K), which CC kindly replaced FOC: Since then, no problems at all (current mileage around 53K). Maybe I'm looked on favourably by the cooling gods. JV No, you were just lucky to get a decent radiator! My first one instantly leaked just like that. It went back and was replaced. The second one showed the leak in a day or two. A third one was sent, I kept hold of the second. The third leaked straight away. I had the second fixed and it‘s been fine for the past 8+ years. I still have the third, basically unused but still with a leak, for when the need arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 34 minutes ago, ScottR400D said: No, you were just lucky to get a decent radiator! My first one instantly leaked just like that. It went back and was replaced. The second one showed the leak in a day or two. A third one was sent, I kept hold of the second. The third leaked straight away. I had the second fixed and it‘s been fine for the past 8+ years. I still have the third, basically unused but still with a leak, for when the need arises. Yes, I fear you're right. Your experience is depressing, but prompts a couple of questions: Who made the leaky ones? And who fixed the second? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamscotticus Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Mixing coolants... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, John Vine said: Yes, I fear you're right. Your experience is depressing, but prompts a couple of questions: Who made the leaky ones? And who fixed the second? JV All the leaky ones were supplied new by CC. The repair was carried out by a race radiator company in Brackley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I read something on the internet that set me thinking about the possibility of electrolytic corrosion. Our radiators are mounted on [insulating] bobbins so there isn’t a direct connection to the chassis of the car. If there is a potential difference between the radiator and the chassis, current will flow. The water in the rad becomes the electrolyte, and perhaps an even better one with a OAT (acidic) additive. My battery is away from the car at the moment so I haven’t tried to measure the pd but I did check the resistance between the rad and the chassis which is 3.5M ohms. It would be easy to add an earth strap across one of the bobbins. Any thoughts? Lots about it on the internet. Have a Google. Here is a starter https://www.northernradiator.com/knowledge/Electrolysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative DerekH Posted January 6 Area Representative Share Posted January 6 I just measured mine with blue IAHT at -25mV. Not enough to worry about. a few hundred mV would be different. DerekH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Agreed. Anyone with OAT coolant able to take a measurement? Edited January 6 by StevehS3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 06/01/2024 at 13:26, StevehS3 said: Agreed. Anyone with OAT coolant able to take a measurement? I've just taken a measurement on my R400D, which has Comma G30 OAT coolant. I connected the black multimeter probe to the battery -ve, and dipped the red probe into the coolant in the expansion tank. I left it for 30 mins or so to settle, then clocked a reading of 6.8mV. Turning on the ignition seemed to make no difference, nor did earthing the rad to the chassis. Is that what you'd expect? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative DerekH Posted January 7 Area Representative Share Posted January 7 I connected the positive lead of the meter to the radiator itself so there is a larger and normal surface area in contact. I think the drawback of grounding the radiator is if you get a sensor fail it could then eat away the radiator. I had bought earth straps to bond mine and the decide not too after measuring the voltages. DerekH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 38 minutes ago, DerekH said: I connected the positive lead of the meter to the radiator itself so there is a larger and normal surface area in contact. I've just done the same test, which gave a reading of -48.0mV (note the minus). I'm not sure what that conveys compared to my earlier +6.8mV. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative DerekH Posted January 7 Area Representative Share Posted January 7 Larger electrical surface area in contacts with the coolant? still not enough to worry about. Interesting though. DerekH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 7 Member Share Posted January 7 (edited) I wouldn't expect the contact area to affect the galvanic potential. And I don't know if an ordinary multimeter has appropriate characteristics, especially impedance, to measure this. Jonathan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvani_potential Edited January 7 by Jonathan Kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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