Rust!

[Rob Mullan]

I have noticed extensive rust has formed on my radiator grille and headlight rims - see photos. I don't really expect to see this on a 21st century car. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

I keep it in a garage when I'm not using it (a condition of my insurance), although I obviously can't guarantee it's going to be dry all the time. Every other vehicle seems to be outside all the time and doesn't end up remotely like this!

HWM quoted me in excess of £1,500 to replace the headlights, although they did a good job of sprucing up the grille.

 

Any helpful comments appreciated!

 

Rob

[Nigel Blandin]

£1500 to replace the lights!! Drop it round mine and I’ll do it for a grand….

Honestly, they are horrendous! Really poor coating/ paint. My grill is 15 years old and has no rust. Bad batch?

[PlastererPete]

That certainly isn’t what I’d expect from a car thats no older than mine I suspect. As Nigel said it could’ve been a bad batch. 
 

If you are ok running the wires through then you can get a whole new headlight shell for £75.

https://www.sevensandclassics.com/online-shop/p/headlamp-shell

Alternatively (if the rust isn’t too deep) maybe just re-powdercoat the bezels?

[Benton]

My headlamp rims on my 2018 420R failed within a couple of years, the powder coating was obviously not applied properly in the first place, though the car had been used (14,000 miles plus) all year round come rain or shine, but avoiding salt!

Got them blasted and re-powder coated for about £40 by a local firm.

What’s the overall state of the car underneath out of interest?

[Nigel Blandin]

BTW, is that HWM “Not charging Aston Martin rates” for Caterham owners?

[Wrightpayne]

SVC sell new shells - I’d say 2 hours tops to swap them including tea! It can be fiddly getting the wires through the brackets especially when the sleeving has gone hard. I replaced the sleeving when I swapped over to LED headlights and added side repeater LEDs into the bowls.

Ian

 

 

[Dan R]

Goodness me, that a price and a half for changing the headlights!   I'd be interested in the breakdown of the quote 

[StevehS3]

New replacement lights I expect at £617 each plus fitting https://caterhamparts.co.uk/headlights/5675-headlight-black-led-lhd-cars-53-4-diameter.html

[Nigel B]

That’s terrible Rob, I really feel for you!

What year is your car? 

There have been a few areas on my 2017 car that needed to be re-powder coated. Notably the pedal box, where the powder coating flaked off in large sheets.

Thankfully the chassis itself seems to be okay. 

I had my previous (2002) Seven for seventeen years & the powder coating on that car still looked like new when I sold it.

[SLR No.77]

Maybe fit your own LED units into some Westermann CF headlight shells?

Stu.

[jody391]

I have just fitted these and believe them to be the same as the Caterham part.

A lot cheaper too!

 

5 3/4" Satin Black Headlamp Bowl and Rim (carbuilder.com)

[Jonathan Kay]

Who supplied these, and how long ago?

Thanks

Jonathan

[TomB]

My SVC units are in much better condition than those and they must be 15 years old! 

[Rob Mullan]

Dear All,

Thanks for your kind and helpful comments!

Some more history:

I bought my car second-hand as a 'Caterham Select' vehicle in November 2021 from Caterham Gatwick. At this stage it was less than 10 months on the road.

I only noticed the rust emerging earlier this year as the paint began to fall off. However, looking back at old photos I can see the rust on the headlamp rims back in September 2022. I can also see the milky marks on the grille where the edge of the coating is starting to lift.

In September this year I took it to HWM (yes - the one 'not charging AM rates', Nigel Blandin) for a service and MoT. I had a short list of matters to look at, including: a tendency for the engine to fade after heavy acceleration; really heavy wear on the front tyres (on a car that has not seen a track in my ownership), a couple of minor dings in the aluminium and the aforementioned rust. The day after I dropped it off I received a Vehicle Health Check identifying:

• (Apparently) extensive rust on the suspension (front and rear), as well as the areas already identified;
• The front tyres were bald on the inner edges (after 3,500 miles of road usage);
• The oil catch tank was not properly plumbed;
• The spare tyre gel was allegedly out-of-date (despite me having replaced it only a year ago);
• The exhaust support bobbin had failed (I replaced this about 18 months ago);
• Paint on the wiper arms had flaked off almost entirely;
• Wiper blades showing signs of perishing (these were new from Caterham and had only been on the car just over two months);
• Oil leak at front of engine;
• Missing cam cover bolt;
• Engine rubbers starting to drop;
• Roller barrel throttles dirty and needing a strip and clean;
• Front wing trims falling off and carbon fibre water stained.

The total cost to rectify these faults (including the service) came to almost £6.500, a sum of money that a) I haven't got to hand and b) is ridiculous for a £40,000 car less than three years old. The bulk of the cost was in the replacement suspension parts (c £2,500) and the headlights (c £1,500). I was advised that the suspension rust could mean an MoT failure.

Further investigation revealed a split oil hose from rubbing on bodywork. Also the lambda probe had failed, causing the throttle fade problems and also making the engine run rich so the plugs were sooted up badly. These items added a further £550 or so to the bill.

In the end I agreed a reduced scope of work, leaving out the rust and flaking paint issues, with a cost of just over £2,500.

I felt that the extent of the rust meant that the process had been going for some time and, having found photos showing that the rust had started emerging during the one-year parts and labour warranty period, was of the opinion that this was a quality issue that should be dealt with by Caterham. HWM raised this with them, and they (Caterham) point blank refused to accept any liability. I then obtained contact details for the Aftersales Operations Manager at Caterham and wrote to him directly. He advised me that as warranty issues have to be raised during the term of the warranty, Caterham were not liable. I asked for a copy of the terms and conditions (I only have a letter that says my car benefits from a '12 months' parts and labour warranty' as a Selected Caterham vehicle), which he has refused to provide. I also pointed out that the failed powder coating was indicative of components that were not of sufficient quality, regardless of the warranty. This was denied, on the basis that the lights were still working, so they could be considered to have failed. Also cam cover bolts fall out as a normal feature of Caterham life, exhaust bobbins are a consumable and the wiper blades can be replaced if I provide proof of purchase (despite me buying them from Caterham). The matter is now unilaterally closed. The whole thing makes a mockery of "Quality is at the forefront of what we do at Caterham Cars", a comment that appeared in the first response from the AOM.

As a point of interest: the AOM has never taken the trouble to inspect my car himself.

Perhaps Caterham ownership is not all it's cracked up to be.... 

[Rob Mullan]

4 hours ago, SLR No.77 said:

Maybe fit your own LED units into some Westermann CF headlight shells?

Stu - I like these, but they're even more expensive than the Caterham units!

Rob

[Rob Mullan]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Kay said:

Who supplied these, and how long ago?

Jonathan,

These came with the car.

Rob

[Rob Mullan]

12 hours ago, Nigel B said:

What year is your car?

Nigel,

My car was first registered in December 2020 and I bought it second-hand in November 2021.

Rob

[Rob Mullan]

16 hours ago, StevehS3 said:

New replacement lights I expect at £617 each plus fitting https://caterhamparts.co.uk/headlights/5675-headlight-black-led-lhd-cars-53-4-diameter.html

Steve,

You're quite right: LED units from Caterham. They will not sell anything other than complete units.

Rob

[Rob Mullan]

18 hours ago, Benton said:

What’s the overall state of the car underneath out of interest?

Benton,

Not nearly as bad as HWM first said. There are small areas of rust on the front wishbones, by the shock absorber mountings, and on the shocks themselves. Also on the diff ends of the driveshafts, although this is apparently normal for all Caterhams. See photos. It passed its MoT in this condition.

Rob

[Rob Mullan]

4 hours ago, jody391 said:

I have just fitted these and believe them to be the same as the Caterham part.

Two new bowls and rims on order - thanks Jody!

Rob

[Gridgway]

So is there actually extensive rust on the suspension components?  I can't really see it in the pics.

Also the chassis powder coat looks in ok condition too.  Does it look like that close up?

[Rob Mullan]

58 minutes ago, Gridgway said:

So is there actually extensive rust on the suspension components?  I can't really see it in the pics.

Not as bad as I was led to believe.

[JP]

FYI - my assembly guide suggests that the handbrake cable should be cable tied to the chassis diagonals, not the A-frame.  Maybe that has changed for the newer cars?

[Benton]

Rob thanks for posting up the photos.  
First the caveats …..I’m no expert, obviously don’t know the full history of your car, nor your usage… but having owned a couple of Caterhams over the last five years and having done over 28,000 miles in all weathers, judging by the condition of the underside it indicates a car that’s been “used“ but without the benefit of having had any or much protective coating, such as ACF50 applied on a regular basis (putting aside the obvious places where the powder coat has clearly failed) as there appears light surface rust in common places.
Have you ever applied any protection?  
Personally as a minimum I’d be cleaning up and checking all the chassis tubes for damage to the powder coating, if they require “touching up” then you’ll find various threads on the subject in the forum.  Likewise I’d address the surface rust where possible before it gets the chance to develop into something more serious. Finally applying some protection in all areas. More of a concern to me would be the current state of the “grot traps” (the space between the footwells and the outer skins towards the rear of the engine bay) as if it has not been cleared out/treated, it’s a prime area for corrosion and potentially  expensive repairs. Definitely worth checking if you haven’t already done so.

Of the other stuff/problems you’ve listed some are common-

1. Scrubbed tyres on the inners are normally a result of the car being set up by someone for track work, typically (but not necessarily) too much negative  camber.  For some reason Caterham frequently set the cars up this way, perhaps they always assume you’re going to track it!  Get someone to set up the front geometry for more road focus use.

2. Exhaust bobbins do fail occasionally, they have a hard job supporting the silencer

3. Wiper arms coating failing, it seen happening, typically poor quality like the headlamp rims

4. Wing trim falling off, again happens, depends who stuck it on and with what? Obviously don’t know if 5he car was a factory or home build.  Easiest thing just take if off.

5. Carbon wings going milky, known problem (subjects been covered many times on this forum with various permanent or workaround solutions)

Won’t get drawn into the Caterham warranty positioning (I’ve been there myself) but I’m sure others will be along…

Hopefully you can get the stuff sorted one way or another

 

 

 

 

[Rob Mullan]

This is what HWM found when they inspected the underside before cleaning it. Quite messy.