Nylon Race Washers - Talk to me about them.

[Tazio]

I know about the nylon race washers that fit between the A frame and the de-dion, in fact they are the only ones mentioned in my old build manual.  My query is, on the Caterham Parts website, it states that you require 16 of these on the rear suspension, so where are the other 14 fitted?, as I said there is nothing in my build manual about them.

Alan

[Jonathan Kay]

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/fixings-other/1438-nylon-racing-washer-shim-175-x-32-x-1.html

"16 used on the rear & 12 on the front suspension"

i don't know: have you used the button to "Ask an Expert"?

Jonathan

[ECR]

I guess wherever the suspension loads are sideways which is pretty well every joint in the rear suspension. Every where there is a pivot point?

I've only ever heard of them being used at the a frame/dedion joint though

[John Vine]

I suspect it's a typo, and that CC are really referring to the chamfered spacer washers used on front lower wishbones and the A-frame forward mounts.

My 2008 kit included two nylon washers, and the Assembly Guide stated:

JV

 

[Tazio]

Thanks everyone for your inputs, much appreciated, I suspect like JV said, it's either a typo, or a subtle attempt to increase spare parts sales revenue lol.

Alan.

[22daz]

Tazio, I bought a pack of 10 on eBay for the price of two from CC.
 

I could also get two washers into each side which I assume would work better than one washer being chewed up from each side. 

Nylon washers 30x17x1mm

22daz

[ScottR400D]

#6 why didn't you just get 2mm thick washers?!

[Tony P]

When I've fitted these in the past, they were supplied in two sizes - the smaller ones fitting the forward bushes of the rear radius arms and the forward bushes of the upper front wishbones. The implication here, surely, is that you fit them everywhere.

[raw]

I wouldn't bother, most I have seen recently, particularly on the A frame to Dedion centre bolt have had massive holes worn in the middle and thus are contributing very little.

Andrew

 

[7 wonders of the world]

Rose joint is a much better solution....

[22daz]

I figured that the metal A frame and Dedion would try and chew up a single washer from each side, which could be the reason they don't last long.
Using two means they at least have a chance of sliding over each other.

22daz

[rkeywood]

'Race washers' generally fitted on all the 636 and 2030 bushes front and rear to pack the bush so the outer length is closer to the inner, in the same way as you'd fit the nylon thrust washers on a Powerflex bush. A standard 636 has a bore length of 35mm and outer length of 32mm.

[John Vine]

Very interesting thread. 

I bought some nylon washers recently, but when I went to fit them, I found the gaps between the sleeve of the metalastic bush and the A-frame arms were occupied by small washers:

I have no idea how they came to be there.  I certainly didn't fit them during the build (2008), and can only assume that either CC did it during some chassis repairs or Millwood during a service.

When the joint is fully tightened, they have the effect of extending the length of the sleeve.  They don't appear to interfere with the operation of the bush at all, or affect road behaviour in any way.

Any thoughts?

JV

[Drakman]

Hi John,

 

I had the same set up on my 2014 factory built Roadsport. 

Did the bolt that goes through the De Dion  mount have washers under the bolt head and nut?  Mine didn't, I assumed that the washers had been placed in the wrong location so i put them under the bolt head and nut.  I made up some graphite impregnated nylon washers to replace them. From memory the OD was 37 mm so much larger than the steel washers.

The steel washers were a perfect fit to slip inside the De Dion mount.

 

Dave

[John Vine]

#14  Well, I certainly didn't fit washers under the bolt head or nut when I built the car (as per the Assembly Guide - see #4).  I'd need to check whether there are any there now.  I'll have a look when I'm next under the car.

[ETA  If yours was factory-built, perhaps that's the way CC did things then.  My chassis repair was in 2014.]

CC's nylon washers are 17.5 x 32 x 1.  Mine are 17 x 30 x 1 from RiCo Plastics, so I'd need to enlarge the hole a bit.

JV

[Geoff Brown]

Strange...the only fitment I know of for the nylon 'race washers' is interposed between de Dion & A frame. Otherwise it is chamfered metal washers or packing washers elsewhere on the suspension points.

JV #13 - No metal washers required there !  Surprised that your car did not feel a bit 'loose' at the back end or indeed emit any strange knocking noises ? 

[John Vine]

#16  Yes, Geoff, I was surprised to find them.  But there are no ill handling effects or knocking noises.  The washers are clamped tight between A-frame cup and the DD bush sleeve, and they're a snug fit on the bolt.  No room for movement really as they simply extend the length of the bush slightly.  When I next see Eric at Millwood, I'll ask him.

JV

[Geoff Brown]

Going back to my second Seven in 2000 even that had nylon race washers interposed.

My first a 1994 1.4K Supersport had none & no steel washers interposed.

Strange....very strange.