Oil leaks (BDA/BDR)

[jcerier]

Hi everyone. First-time post from a new US member.

My car is a 1997 Caterham regular size chassis, with a dry-sumped, 4-year-ago built 1700 BDA/BDR engine. The engine sat for a while before I bought the car, and now leaks lots of oil - like tablespoons, not drips. Some of it is from the oil tank, and I should be able to track that down and fix that.

Some of it is in the area of the two vertical hoses at the front left of the engine - the hoses that run from the head to the block. Oil return hoses, I think? One is rubber, one is braided stainless. Both use Oetiker hose clamps on both ends. I was planning to remove and replace those hoses, but based on how tight the space is and the type of clamps I might pass on this. I don't think I can get the tool in there with the engine in the car. Thoughts?

It also might be leaking around the oil pan gasket, so I plan to pull the pan and replace that.

I am considering installing an oil check valve, like this, to keep oil from flowing from the tank back into the engine when at rest:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...BoCmMEQAvD_BwE

It just seems like the oil flows back to the engine and finds lot of places to leak out. This is a high quality part (and priced accordingly), which is used in the Porsche world. Thoughts?

Also thoughts on other common leak points in BDA/BDR/crossflow engines?

I am wondering, from people's experience with BDA or even crossflow engines: Am I better off to just pull the engine to get at all of the areas that I have to access?

Thanks in advance everyone.

[Jonathan Kay]

Welcome.

Would you like an Assembly Guide?

Jonathan

[auyt]

Welcome.

Yes they leak, not uncommon especially on BDA/BDR/TC's . as they have a common block.

Best thing is the give it a really good clean and that will help with location, run the engine until it gets how don't drive it and a good look with a torch and a mirror. From my experience leaks can appear to come from one place and originate else where for example

Cam cover gaskets is a key area.

My TC dry sump pump was leaking at mount face, read the hardest one to get at needed 1/8th of turn leak stopped weeping.

Check the oil lines

Around the front L/H side of the head and the gasket from the front case to the head is another area.

an often forgotten place is the oil filter

The Oil tank can be just spillage that works it way down to the mount.

 

 

 

[jcerier]

Do you mean a BDA assembly guide?

[ncm]

Hi, If you haven't got a manual for the engine there is an online version here :-  http://barnblinker.com/index.php/tag/rs-1600/

 

Brian.

[jcerier]

Nice - is there a way to download that?

[Jonathan Kay]

I have the Caterham factory Assembly Guides and Handbooks, including 1996. That includes a chapter on fitting the Ford engine and the wiring diagram.  

Nothing else on your engine 

Jonathan

[anthonym]

My 1987 BDR had a leak we eventually found using ultra violet dye, it was the scavenger pump, one of the bolts I think. Not tight enough, I think access was difficult which explained this.
 

Welcome to the club :-)

anthony

[anthonym]

That link doesn't work, looks like some is missing in the middle where dots appear.

[Jonathan Kay]

Nice - is there a way to download that?

http://barnblinker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ESCORT-RS-1600-Supplementary-Workshop-Manual.pdf

Jonathan

[Roger King]

The BDA is a leaker if not assembled properly.

I'll start at the top.

The cam cover is best fitted with sealant, either Silicone RTV or anaerobic type, and no gasket. The engine was designed in the era of cork/foil/cork gaskets which are utterly useless compared to modern gaskets and sealants. The only thing to add is that you shouldn't do this until you are happy with the way the engine is running, because the sealant is a nightmare to remove if you need access. It is possible that better solutions are available from companies like Cometic now.

The rear camshaft plugs sometimes leak. They are simply an "O" ring seal and a thin smear of RTV around the ring will fix this (no jokes please).

The biggest top end leak is usually from the front camshaft seals. These are perfectly fine seals, but there is no drain hole behind them to allow oil to run down to the cylinder head. The result of this is that you are left with the area directly behind the seal permanently full of oil which means that instead of holding back a few drips of oil, the seal has to cope with an ocean of oil - with inevitable results. This is easily dealt with if the engine is disassembled by drilling a small hole directly behind the seal which then allows oil to run down into the cylinder head. This needs to be done with great care with respect to positioning if you are not to cause further problems, but it is normally a 100% cure. It beats me why this was not done in production.

The hoses are horrible and the only solution I have found is to replace them with softer, more heat resistant material. I haven't built any engines for 15 years now, but I would suggest a silicone hose might fit the bill. One hose is a breather, the other is an oil drain tube.

Sump wise, you have the same problem with cork/foil/cork gaskets. Burtons used to produce solid cork gaskets that were much stronger and may still be available. It may be that Cometic or others now suppy something better. However, if you are stuck with the original gasket type, fit with Silicone RTV, but only tighten down very gently Leave for at least 8 hours to set and then fully tighten. This helps to stop the gasket squishing out of position as it is tightened.

 

[Englishmaninwales]

For the sump gasket on my twin cam, if it is a cork type, I fit it using gasket adhesive (eg Permatex Aviation), brush on and allowed to cure with light pressure from the sump for 12 hours before correct torque on the sump bolts. This will stop the gasket extruding when the bolts are torqued. Also easy to clean off with solvent compared to RTV on engine dis-assembly.

Also ensure the sump fitting flange is flat prior to fitting - it can get distorted at the bolt holes from previous over torquing.

 

 

[jcerier]

Awesome - thanks

[jcerier]

Still figuring out how to work this forum. Looks like a reply to a specific post doesn't quote the post I'm replying to.

Thanks for the input everyone. Luckily my top-end is dry. I don't see any oil anywhere around where the head mates with the block.

I'm thinking that the most likely source of most of my leaking is the sump, so the advice on how to install will be very valuable - thanks so much. So I'll probably do the sump gasket, make sure my oil tank is leaktight, and then put it all back together and see where I'm at. 

[Jonathan Kay]

Looks like a reply to a specific post doesn't quote the post I'm replying to.

Some Members use the quotation marks tool but IIUC that's what results in large quoted text which I consider ugly. 

I prefer to put the quoted text in italics, as above.

You can then manually prefix that with the username, with or without an @.

It would be nice to have an easy facility for both attributed and unattributed quotes.

Still figuring out how to work this forum.

There's a very helpful Forum User Guide, but please just ask.

Jonathan

[John Vine]

Re #14:

Looks like a reply to a specific post doesn't quote the post I'm replying to.

A known bug, with no published fix date.  The clumsy workaround is to quote the referenced post by # (as I just did).

JV

 

[jcerier]

Update:

Through the winter I successfully sealed up my oil tank and sump. Both of those seem to be oil-tight at this point. 

I still have two areas of significant oil leakage.

#1 appears to be the head to block breather tube on the right side of the engine, just above the blanking plate that covers the spot where a mechanical fuel pump would mount. It is a short, fat, conical tube.

#2 appears to be the oil breather/drainback hoses at the front left corner of the engine.

These are all shown in the following images:

 

 

 

I think I can get good enough access to these to replace them without pulling the engine. Questions, for anyone who knows these (BDA/BDR) engines:

- Can I replace #1 without removing the head?

- If I go to all of the work to replace these, is there a way to be sure that they are sealed leak-tight? Use some kind of sealant?

- Any other advice?

I'll likely call Dave Bean Engineering here in the States, but thought there might be some folks on this forum who can share wisdom from their experience.

Thanks in advance, and stay safe everyone.

 

[Tazio]

When mine was rebuilt very recently, re your Point 1, you can see mine was plugged in the head and block, the guy who rebuilt it has been building competition BDs for 30 years so obviously feels it's unnecessary. Regarding the other two drain pipes, there was no sealant used, just new hoses and good clips.  

Another good source of info in the US is Tony Ingram, he runs Lotus7.com, he's a Brit, when he was in the UK he had a great reputation for building strong Twin Cams.

 

[Tazio]

Double post, doh !

[jcerier]

Wow that picture is like BDA engine porn. Looks like you could eat off that engine.

I don't think I have the dark part that I see sandwiched under your fuel pump block-off plate. Know anything about that?

I'll get in touch with Tony Ingram, and look into plugging those holes. Interesting.

[Tazio]

We went to a remote electric fuel pump, the original was blanked off as you can see, the black is some sort of gasket that he used.

 

She is totally oil tight.

[elie boone]

The black is an insulating block, to prevent the heat from the block transferring into the mechanical fuel pump.

[7 wonders of the world]

Phenolic spacer, often used on inlet manifolds to to reduce thermal heat soak

[Tazio]

Thank you Neil, I've learnt a new word today !

 

[jcerier]

Got it - thanks. Obviously not required in my engine without a mechanical fuel pump.