270r lsd problem

[aurelchevalier]

Hello all

my SL20 (16 plate & 3000miles) had his first mot today. I took a good look underneath the car & realised when spinning the right rear wheel than the other one staid static which means the lsd doesn’t do its job

i did this check a couple of months ago & it was working as intended. 

Given age & low mileage (car is now out of warranty) I am p....d off I am honest ! Before I either send it to dealer or embark in disassembling it - would welcome any thoughts from community on some potential easy checks to be done?

many thanks all

 

 

[sjl1]

I had exactly the same problem with same car and year, bmw titan lsd diff had carbon plates (intended to reduce noise) which disintegrated causing diff to fail. Apparently a common issue which caused Caterham to switch back to sintered plates

caterham accepted responsibility but since car was a kit had to pay for removal and refitting which i thought was fair enough, they replaced carbon plates with sintered and all was well

[aurelchevalier]

Thanks for the tip!

[7 wonders of the world]

you may have broken a belleville spring the the clutch pack hence you effectively lost the preload, this does not mean the LSD will no longer work though.... have you tried it on the road..?

If this is the case you will however hear a clunk as the cutches engage and disengage as the spring is no longer there to cushion the take up on application of the right pedal.

Sadly still needs the final drive out to replace ..... pretty common due to the less than ideal design of the Titan

 

[CtrMint]

Could I just ask what is supposed to happen, I assume the opposite wheel should rotate, but in the same direction or opposite direction? Sorry if its a noob question, but I'd like to understand more.  I'm thinking it's the same direction?

Thanks

[7 wonders of the world]

with a plate LSD,the preload effectively adds an equal load onto each wheel meaning the should rotate in the same direction when one is turned - assuming both wheels are off the ground.

You can measure the preload present by jacking one wheel up and using preferably a digital torque wrench on the other hb nut, you will incure a little brake and driveshaft drag this way but it will give you a ball park figure.

[CtrMint]

hmm, i have a digital torque wrench, might give that a go.  This might sound like a stupid question, but does it matter which way you rotate when making the measurement?

[7 wonders of the world]

Aurelchevalier

Speak to Steve @ SPC Astwood Bank just up the road from you, pop the final drive into him and he will sort it for you,

 

https://www.tracsport.com/

 

[aurelchevalier]

@ctrmnt: not sure if it matters but i would do it wheel spinning fwd 

7wonders : thanks for the address I am going to let the dealer have a go first and take it up with cc as I am not willing to pay for that given how many people came back to me telling me they had their diff rebuilt under warranty ! Let’s see....

[CtrMint]

I’ve had a look around on the internet and the best I can find is the following,

1. jack up and support the car to stop it moving.
2. remove the wheel from the side being tested and lower the car so the other end remains on the floor.
3. leave the car out of gear.
4. measure the torque in a forward direction with a wrench on the side being tested, looking for the force required to cause the wheel to rotate.
5. repeat on the other side 

I’m assuming a happy diff should produce equal results, ensuring the car behaves the same turning in either direction.  Question is what sort of torque spec is on the Titan differential?

[aurelchevalier]

Quick update: dealer eventually has looked at the car & think the diff is ok quoting “ you have a clutch type LSD fitted which acts almost like a conventional diff unless one wheel loses traction and the spring and clutches come into allow traction”....I am sceptical to say the least as I thought all 270r / superlight 20 (16 plays) were fitted with a platted diff.... Thoughts from the community ?

[sjl1]

Pretty sure caterham specced a titan lsd with carbon plates (which fail) on 2016 sigma’s

Have you called caterham cars directly, they can tell you exactly what the car was sold with (they are very helpful)? Am guessing this will contradict your dealer ...

[pakay299]

Hi, my 2017 270R has same problem. BMW 391 diff but I cant confirm with caterham which internals it has. I jack car up, spin a wheel and sometimes opposite wheel doesnt move all, or sometimes goes in opposite direction. Car is going back to Gatwick Caterham in two weeks for investigation as well as 310 upgrade; I suspect it is Titan LSD carbon plate fail; I spoke with Road and Race and they think the same. Please let me know if you get yours resolved.

PS diff is hell of a noisy; suspect due to bits of shattered carbon plate flying around in diff oil soup!!

[aurelchevalier]

Hi thanks for letting me know - car is a dealer at the moment let's keep in touch to make sure we get this properly corrected by caterham !

[aurelchevalier]

Update : confirmed most of pre-load Gone due to carbon plate premature wear - being quoted £580 + vat for refurb & swap car being out of warranty waiting to see if caterham will do anything 

[Geoff Brown]

So from what date were the carbon plates fitted to LSDs? 

[aurelchevalier]

so to close this thread - the LSD has been refurbed with sintered plate @ not additional cost for me (thanks to an effective caterham dealer) - I got the car back & it feels goooood!

[DJ.]

Good news

[gavinj]

I bought a 2 yrs old 310R from Gatwick 2 weeks ago and it was quickly obvious the LSD wasn't right, on checking the preload had completely vanished, I spoke to Caterham aftersales only to be told thats how they should be and only older diffs exhibit any preload.  Knowing that is utterly incorrect I pushed to get it looked at only to be told that they would need the car for a month whilst the diff is sent to R&R for analysis and they would then decide what warranty cover there maybe,  This is just not on so I have dropped the diff out today and taking to the amazingly helpful R&R this week and have it rebuilt whilst I wait and see if they think it's the normal carbon plate issue.

I'll report findings later in the week.

[Wrightpayne]

And presumably you’ll embarrass Caterham aftersales with the turnaround and present them with a bill!

[ScottR400D]

Gavin, why do you say ‘it was quickly obvious the LSD wasn’t right?

 

[Geoff Brown]

And my question from #16 has still not been answered........at approximately what point in time did CC swap to carbon plates?

If it is easier I have a late 2012 kit with BMW LSD.

[Grubbster]

I spoke to Caterham aftersales only to be told thats how they should be

Stock answer from CC to any problem in my experience :(

[aerobod - near CYYC]

I believe the default on the Titan carbon plate LSD is zero pre-load, which is why it will often clunk on overun as the LSD cage shifts from side to side. I received an "upgrade" a few years ago along with the new diff back plate (for deDion clearance). The upgrade consisted of two washers a couple of mm thick to go between the belleville washers and cage halves so that the washers applied some or more preload. My clunk went away, but I don't know if there is an impact on long term life or reliability, mine has been fine for 25,000km, since the "upgrade".

[7 wonders of the world]

I set my ZF to nigh on Zero preload - though I did mine correctly by reducing the belleville spring weight whilst maintaining the pack clearance..... 

- not just adding washers if they really managed to get 2 x 2mm washers in then I'm not surprised it banged like a barn door in the wind....