Mrp Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Theoretical at the moment and just interested in the feasibility and looking for some expertise.I have a 140 Sigma Roadsport with all the upgrades, big brakes, Slippy Diff and Nitrons etc etc. for sentimental and personal reasons I do not want to trade it in for a different car. In a quest for more power I have been investigating the Sigma tuning route but it seems a little expensive approx £ 6-7k.What is the feasibility of swapping to a R400 spec Duratec engine and what would be involved. Has anybody done it, what parts would be needed. Obviously the sale of the existing 11k mls engine could be used to offset some of the cost.I would be interested in POBC's opinions.As I have said, trading in the car for a different Duratec R400 is not an option.Mrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 How about supercharging the Sigma?I don't know much about conversions, but it will give you the extra power and torque you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 If you just want any duratec out of a ford mondeo then I expect it could be done quite cost effectively. However if you want an R400 spec one with all the ancillaries then I doubt you'll have much change from 6k. That is assuming you dont find a nice second-hand one with everything you need.I would seriously consider the power to weight of each route. A £6k tuned sigma isn't going to be that far behind a duratec in terms of power to weight. But then it will have the handling and breaking advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangomikeromeo Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 i suggest the phrase here is 'Ouch!'My K has had just under half that already and needs another £3K to get to 200 bhp so it appears that this is just how much it costs. Oilyhands has a heuristic on £/bhp and hopefully will enlighten lest I misquote but taking the common or garden from mass produced, mass consumed, massive reliability engine past the 100 bhp/litre mark appears to be a case of TADTS without forced induction.If the consensus is £6K for each option if you keep the Sigma doing it in steps will help the man maths ease through the Authority gates whereas D sounds like a big gulp/step.(If you're married to me - the above spend is wine induced bragging and no intention is implied on the rest of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative nickhi Posted May 22, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted May 22, 2016 I would think to swap from Sigma to Duratec would probably head over 6-7k, depending on where you source the engine and how much of the work is DIY. Could always recoup some from the sale of current engine. Maybe look at the price comparison between your car and a similar spec R400 of the same vintage. I'm guessing the difference may be some of the way there already, if so the price of sentiment seems a bargain. Interested to know if anyone has done this swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr500dom Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 How much power do you want ?And where are you getting £6-7k for the sigma tuning options from ?Thats a lot of money, you could build a proper sigma for that.Throttle Bodies`s, Proper Head and cams, lightweight Steel flywheel will all make a massive difference.If you want 200hp, then you'll need High compression pistons and rods as well.But 180hp is easily do-able with a ported head, cams and Throttle bodies which even buying everything new should only be £2k plus a remap to suit.I have a set of Caterham 150 spec Throttle bodies "in stock" if you need some.HTHDom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I suppose that is referring to the prices of certain off-the-shelf packages provided by some companies.When compared against the cost of going it alone with upgrades it does look expensive as you've illustrated. Factor in installation, development costs and expertise / experience. And also consider that some packages include a lot more than you've listed there (bottom end modifications, new ECU, uprated clutch), the gap in cost starts to get a lot narrower. It is still difficult to justify the difference over the raw part prices though.I've always been tempted to drop a few thousand £ on a DIY route. I think it would be a lot more satisfying and rewarding knowing that I researched and selected the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr500dom Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Thats what Im getting at, How much power do you want ? If you don't go chasing 200hp or 9000rpm then you can eliminate £1000 worth of pistons and rods, and the associated engine build costs. If you limit yourself to head work, cams and intake mods, this can be done with a "Track & Road" remap by Steve G. It can even be done on another head, so you could put it back to standard for resale, and swap the modded head and intake on to your new car. Stuarts (PP) Kits are very good, with a lot of work behind them and a warranty. But they don't suit all Budgets. There are many other people tuning Sigma engines, (Shawspeed, BPJ - Big Paul Jackson) who have not specifically targeted caterham owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 180hp seems like a good figureMrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12standish Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I am in the same position (although mine is not upgrade 125). I fancy putting a Duratec in rather than selling my current car and upgrading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 You would need the Duratec engine, exhaust, engine mounts, if you can't use the sigma clutch you will need a to change the gearbox and the bellhousing and clutch assembly, possibly new electric connectors, not sure if they use the same rad either. if you would find a Duratec out of a Caterham would save some money but they don't come up very often for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 How about a bulk buy of Sigma upgrade from Premier Power !Mrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackenzie Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've done a K series to Duratec.......From Memory, if using new parts... Engine, new circa £2K Raceline bellhousing £300 plus £300 clutch Clutch master and slave cylinders £100 Raceline wet sump £450 Oil filter housing (needed if imperial chassis) £100 Throttle bodies £1000 ECU £600 Rolling Road £300 Exhaust £1000 Engine Mounts £100Total £5,800Not a definitive list or costs, but you can see it soon mounts up.....I managed to get some second hand parts inc. Jenvey throttle bodies, R400 exhaust, raceline sump and bell housing and an engine out of a Morgan with 14K miles with oil changes every 6K miles so I got lucky there.As other have said the sale of your existing engine can offset some of the costs.CheersIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 plus....alternatoralternator mountsair filterhosescamsvalve springsverniersif your spending money on new cams etc you might as well add pistons and rods on and get more bang for your buck, these parts are rare on the used market.Surely someone blows Sigmas TTS performance maybe ??what's the used market like for selling on some of the redundent Sigma parts to offset the cost?also factor in sorting the 5 speed box for some decent ratios and add and LSD too, maybe wider rear wheels and tyres................ i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Here is an interesting thread.. http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/366326-shawspeed-1-6-se-mapped.html179bhp with the help of ShawSpeed. The spec is listed but essentially ported head, cams & throttle bodies. Uprated internals would be recommended at this level I suppose, but would then form a good basis if you wanted to head towards 200bhp at a later date.That would make for a much more interesting engine than "just another" duratec car on the road. Plus for sentimental reasons, keeping the same engine has to be a bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr500dom Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Thats what I was saying yesterday. 180HP is just "Head off" work plus TB`s and a remap 200 needs High compression pistons and steel rods, and the right set of throttle bodies (AT Power Ideally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 If i had a sigma engined Caterham, i would seriously consider 1.6 ecoboost engine.a lot of work is needed but thats is the best engine you cant get for £1000ecu cost a lot and you will need a stronger gearbox but you wont look back before 10 yearsof course i am a little bit biased as i havé replaced my screaming k series by one of theses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domus Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 AntonioWould love to see a photo of that installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr500dom Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I suspect its LHD Not much room for the Turbo on a RHD installation. But I would be interested to see how you have done it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 sure the turbo can be relocated with a little tubular imagination and fabrication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 the steering shaft needs to be relocated for both LHD and RHDas you can see everything is a very tight fit under the nose cone but i finally managed to find a place for every parts! http://fr.tinypic.com/r/33woajm/9http://i65.tinypic.com/33woajm.jpghttp://i68.tinypic.com/nvnyat.jpghttp://i64.tinypic.com/26129er.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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