Heater matrix repair / replacement

[Frying Pan]

Changed the thermostat on my car on Saturday (went back from a drilled 88 degree to the 82 degree stat with a hole drilled in it) and flushed and replaced coolant. Refill went well, with no sign of any airlocks, and the car now cools just like it used to. I did test it in a saucepan (she loves me doing that ) and it worked fine, but the 88 degree stat hardly ever seemed to open, and the fan was running almost constantly.

 

However, the heater matrix is now leaking in to the footwell and onto the scuttle. I have the plastic heater with the '7' logo, and managed to remove all the plastic rivets to remove the top cover. However, I didn't want to disturb the pipe clips and remove the matrix itself, as they are not Jubilee clips but the 'Clic' type, and I don't have the right tool to remove / replace the clips, and didn't have any spare Jubilee clips. The heater valve seems to be pretty watertight with the heater 'off', and the car was fine yesterday on a long run.

 

I would like to fix the heater though (it was damn chilly yesterday at 7.30am!). Having read others' posts, it looks like it may just be the O-rings on the inlet / outlet plates, or if more serious, the matrix may still be available (Claytons are only 15 minutes from work). Failing that one for a proper Mini apparently fits.

 

Any gotchas? Is it worth trying to repair, or is a replacement the way to go? Is the OE one or a Mini one a better bet? Will Jubilee clips be OK or do I need to buy the right tool to re-use the Clic clamps?

 

Edited by - 7heavensoon on 14 Apr 2014 09:29:13

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

You can pop those crappy clamps off with a screwdriver.

 

jubilee or mikalor is the way to go.

 

if you can still gwt the matrix it is very expensive now. I would shut the heater valve and remove the heater do you can look at the o-rings first. Very cheap fix.

 

The matrix is just a metal pipe. Maybe it can be repaired by a radiator place ??

[Frying Pan]

Thanks. I've ordered some Jubilee clips and a box of assorted O-Rings. Hopefully this will cure the problem

[LazerBrain]

James Whiting replaced my matrix a couple of years back. I can't remember the price for the parts off the top of my head though.

[stuart147]

Do a google for Clayton Heating in Coventry. They supplied mine about 3 years ago. Have you done a good search on here though. I seem to remember another member getting one off fleabay. Pretty sure it was an original mini one, but not certain.

 

Stuart

 

[Ian B]

There's a good thread on heater Matrix replacement here.

 

My 2001 SV started leaking last year and I sourced this British made all metal replacement made for 1984-1992 Mini's, at £45 delivered.

 

I think it's the same as this one from their website.

 

I haven't fitted it yet, but it looks identical in shape, size, and pipe positions.

 

I did contact the seller and he said he'd sold several to Caterham owners in the past, and asked for some feedback. Sadly it's dropped off my "purchase history" now so I can leave feeedback even when I do get round to fitting it!

 

 

[Frying Pan]

Thanks all. Hopefully will get a chance to have a look over Easter to see if it is fixable

[Cookie Monster]

I got one from Claytons about 2 years ago - around £70 if I recall correctly

[Frying Pan]

UPDATE...

 

Finally got some time yesterday to take the heater out of the car. No visible signs of a leak, but undid the pipe connection block (4 screws) and removed the old O-rings.

 

Despite having bought a box of assorted O-rings, none of them fitted - it is quite a flat O-ring (15mm ID x 1.5mm depth for future reference).

 

Also, the Jubilee Clips I bought were a bit too big (25-32mm), so off to our local factors, and soon had new smaller Jubilee clips and a couple of O-rings.

 

Fitted the new O-rings, and fitted everything back the the car. The new Jubilee clips were too small (16-22mm), so had to re-use the 'Clic' clips that were originally fitted - using a pair of pliers, they clicked back into place (or so I thought!).

 

Refilled / bled the cooling system to add back in the heater into the loop and started the car. All looked good - everything warmed up nicely and no leaks... until I blipped the throttle, at which point one of the Clic clips un-Clicced itself and the car proceeded to pump hot coolant over the scuttle .

 

This coincided pretty much to the second with a huge downpour, so by the time I had turned the engine off, cleared the drive of tools and pushed the car into the garage, it was soaking wet. Ho hum - used the wet and dry vac to clean most of the coolant off the car, and then re-connected everything and refilled / bled once more. Once the rain had stopped, pushed the car back out and leant into the cockpit to pull the handbrake. At this point, a pigeon decided to crap on the handbrake handle - missed my hand by about 1/2" Aaarrgghhh! More time wasted cleaning up...

 

Anyway, started it again and it seems watertight even when revving. Have ordered yet more Jubilee clips so will need to replace the Clic clips at some point.

[Blokko]

Just jumping through this hoop now.

 

Sunday morning and struggling to get replacement O-rings. Managed to get round rather than flat O-rings, but the plate between the matrix and the hose connectors doesn't quite clamp together so my assumption is that this will lead to leaks.

 

Any idea where I could sort a suitable O-ring on a Sunday? Is it just a case of trawling round the DIY stores and Motor factors......

[Q Catcher]

If I recall, I did a similar repair with fatter, rounder O rings, a couple of years ago, and it all worked OK in the end. Being a cautious type, I also added K-Seal to the coolant. K-Seal is a really good leak sealant (different from Radweld).

[Blokko]

Well, despite Halfraud's saying over the phone that they did not stock O-rings I popped into the Cannock store having not had any luck at nearby B&Q, Wickes and a couple of motor factors. They did have various sizes in stock so I took a punt on a small pack of circular O-rings.

 

Fitted it all back together, but didn't get chance to fire the engine up to see whether the new O-rings have sorted the problem. Might get chance to do so when I get back home tonight.....

[Mucus72]

Hi. I'm resurfacing this old post. Just acquired a lovely new heater matrix as per one of the links above from Motorrads http://motoradsonline.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/all-metal-heater-matrix-for-caterham-7.html

i was just wondering if anyone else has successfully fitted this because it's just a little too big to fit into the moulded gap at the rear bulkhead. 

The  site link above implies that you can do a slight modification to make it fit but I'm a little nervous about this. 

Any help gratefully accepted!

 

[glasgow]

I was thinking of buying the same heater. Shame it didn't fit. Mine is 2003, what year is your car - is it the plastic heater box with the logo "7" embossed on it?

Cheers

Ahmed

[Mucus72]

Exactly the same as yours Ahmed. 2003 SV with 7 embossed plastic casing...

[Mucus72]

Just for reference for the POBC in future I successfully fitted the Motorrads heater matrix by taking my Dremel to the back plate of the bulkhead seated part of the overall heater and fan casing. Just needed to take out a 1 cm chunk of plastic on the drivers side. Once completed I taped over the new hole and then fitted the heater matrix and replaced the small black plastic plugs. A really easy job provided you don't mind hacking up the inner plastic. The heater cover and the matrix itself hides any bodge. 

[glasgow]

Good to know you managed to fit it. I will buy one tomorrow. Did you take any pics? 

[Nick Green]

Those pics on the motorads web page are of my car. The "enthusiast" referred to is me.

I cut out some plastic at the back too, which I told the guys at motorads, but which hasn't made it into the text on the webpage.

Sorry I didn't spot this a little sooner to offer some reassurance.

[glasgow]

Any problems/issues with:

A) Hot metal heater touching the plastic casing

B) the heater is brass while the radiator is aluminium (the original heater was aluminium)

Thanks

[Mucus72]

No pictures taken sorry Ahmed. I cut (with Dremel, but a Stanley knife would have worked) a vertical line down about 1-1.5 cm to the left of the recess, leaving a similar distance to the upper hole the top left black plastic pin and lug was removed from. I then followed the angles of the folds of the plastic - so top diagonal and bottom horizontal lines. I then taped the gap up, but leaving me with 90 degree edges in the tape to slot the wider matrix in. 

Good on question on heat, I hadnt thought about this, but I see no problems based on knowing what and where I removed material. 

[Mucus72]

Although the original heater was also touching the same plastic at the back of the bulkhead. The foam on my old unit was only on the short edges...

[Nick Green]

As Mucus72 says, I doubt heat will be an issue. Certainly nothing has showed up so far. If you consider the heat soak that must build up in that area, with exhaust heat and so on, and that the heater only gets as hot as the coolant...

Sounds like Mucus72 did a neater fitting job than me too <ahem>

Re different metals, the original matrix has what look like copper loops on one end. I am no metallurgist so can't answer that question really. But there must be different materials in modern cars, which the coolant comes in to contact with.

My heater has been fitted almost a year. Time will tell.

[john milner]

Just fitted a Motorad heater.New and old similar in size but very different in style. Instead of a bendy copper tube there appears to be a lot of thin oval tubes between each side. Not tested properly yet but seems okay when waming up stationary.

I Dremel'd about 1/8" of the drivers side of the recess.

After fitting I remembered they supplied a length of sticky back foam. Not sure it is worth using any of it.

After removing a vertical chunk I then took out the front of the bottom corner.

To finish I taped up with some sticky back foil used for air conditioning.

[glasgow]

I didn't cut anything in the recess. I just enlarged one of the side holes on the plastic box cover and it fit perfectly.

The matrix is of a much better quality than the original Caterham one

[john milner]

I found that the hose was leaking where the rubber hoses connect to the pipes of the new heater. My guess is that over time the hoses and old plastic pipes had changed shape slightly and that the original clips were not providing any tightness to clamp down on the new metal pipes. I have replaced the old screwdriver & pliers clips with 18-25mm stainless Jubilee clips and so far so good.

I've not had a significant run yet with the new heater. My initial thoughts are that there is little difference in performance but that the new one is a lot stronger looking.