Steve Campbell Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Hi folks I seem to be losing clutch fluid from the master cylinder...no obvious leaks so a search on here has yielded a likely problem with the slave cylinder....and an engine and gearbox out job to fix. ☹️ Its a 2008 R400 D That's way beyond my DIY skills....any clues how much this is going to set me back ? Off on holidays tomorrow so will be giving J Whiting a call when I return and wanted a ball park figure so I can break the news gently to SWMBO !! Edited by - steve campbell on 29 Mar 2014 17:00:03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Well, a pure guess... Labour 4h @ £65 = £260 (I've no idea what JW charges) Parts (slave cylinder) £130 Sundries £20 Say £400 to you, guv. Your "no obvious leaks" comment puzzles me a bit, though. If the fluid level in the m/c is dropping, it has to be going somewhere? As my car is the same model and vintage as yours, I shall be watching my m/c very closely from now on. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Thanks John....my best guess is it's leaking at the slave cylinder which is buried somewhere between the engine and gearbox...so as it's only leaking when used (ite hot)... it's leaking out and burning off inside bellhousing....... but I'm open to other ideas !! 1hr 20 minute blat (which included 15 mins stuck in traffic..so lots of clutch work) loses about 20% of the master cylinder ! Edited by - Steve Campbell on 29 Mar 2014 20:16:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Brake fluid is quite flammable, if it was burning off you'd know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 hmmm....maybe more investigation then. Its' definitely going somewhere, all be it slowly, but there is no leak around pedal box, clutch pedal, master cylinder, hose or connections ! If it was only leaking 1 drop at a time, would it evaporate or burn away within the bellhousing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Quoting Steve Campbell: If it was only leaking 1 drop at a time, would it evaporate or burn away within the bellhousing ?I very much doubt it. The boiling point of brake/clutch fluid is usually well over 200C, and it has a low vapour pressure. The bellhousing temperature is unlikely to exceed 100C (unless you're very brutal on the clutch!). The R400D bellhousing doesn't have a drain (at least, mine doesn't), so I suspect the region around the slave cylinder is slowly getting coated with fluid. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi folks...back from holidays and now need to get this sorted before the sunny days are here ! I've always taken my car to J Whiting for a service and MOT, but this is a bit of a bigger job. Who should I talk to for competitive quotes ..or should I just go with JWhiting. I don't know why, but I never saw him as a Duratec expert so for this engine out job there is something saying I should go elsewhere...no logic..just gut feel ! Tell me I'm wrong or recommend a place ?? I'm in South Bucks...happy to drive ~ 1hr to the right place so West of London ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Removing a D from a Caterham is not much different form removing any other engine from it. Can't see why JW shouldn't be able to do a top job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Reeves Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I used Richard at Automotive engineering but down in Uckfield to do an engine out and back in again during the day. not sure it could have been only 4 hours though? My new build Dura dumped all the fluid after we put the engine in and fortunately before we did all the bits. During the clutch bleed all the fluid went into the bell housing ( as we learnt) and it was all about the factory fitted plate which the master cylinder sat on. It had a recess but the m/c should have located in but didnt and caused a twisting/distortion. New one sent and all worked fine but because of this we drilled an inspection hole in the bell housing and plugged with a plastic insert...just to check if it was leaking again and for future. alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamQ Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 That's way beyond my DIY skills... Unless you're absolutely adamant about not doing this yourself, I really would consider it - engine removal IMVHO is one of those tasks that sounds daunting but when one gets down to it really isn't too involved at all - using common sense as to where, just break (in a reversible way!) all the links between the engine and the rest of the car (draining the coolant takes place automatically during this process!), labelling things electrical along the way, and then lift and pull, lift and pull. (Sometimes, e.g. engine mounts, it's easier to break the links in two places (i.e. chassis and block ends) to give a bit more room for manoeuvre.) JV estimates the entire job at 4 hours - even if it takes you 16 it's only a weekend and if you run into trouble there are lots of kind souls here who'll help (and hopefully one who'll lend you an engine crane). Removal can be done alone if necessary, but an extra pair of hands is definitely useful when putting it back in (which really is just the reverse of removal with a bit more skin off the knuckles as you joggle the engine to get it to mate with the gearbox (and you won't have disturbed the clutch plate so there'll be no messing about with aligning things there)). And you can tell SWMBO that you've saved X00 pounds and spend some on her and some on an upgrade ... Just my thoughts for what they are worth ... Adam Edited by - AdamQ on 7 Apr 2014 14:55:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Walker Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Not looking for any controversy here. It's just interesting how perceptions occur - I would have thought that J. Whiting would be more qualified and experienced than anyone else to take on a Duratec slave cylinder. He's spent at least 35+ years working exclusively on Caterham Sevens (and Lotus 7), cars powered by Austin A Series, Ford Pre-crossflow and Crossflow, Lotus Twin Cams, Cosworth BD, Vauxhall 8 & 16 Valves, Rover K-Series. 20 years ago he engineered a Ford Zetec installation for the Seven, (I know because I had one) and 10 years ago the Caterham-FireBlade cars (again, I had one). So I can't imagine that a Duratec slave cylinder would be a step too far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Rendell Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree with Andrew - JW is a top class engineer and can undertake anything on a 7. Piers R300KWK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If you've hd JW work on your car before, & you don't won't to DIY, then you can't get much better than James (& Ruth). However if you can borrow a friend with an engine crane, then it's quite easy to DIY. It ain't rocket you know what. 12 years ago I had a gearbox failure. Around came a friend with an engine crane. 2 years later I took the engine out myself single handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 My 4-hour "pure guess" was loosely based on my own R400D build. I imagine it could easily be twice that, even for JW. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 If it helps any, when I sent my car back to Caterham for its PBC, they spotted that I'd used the wrong bolts to mount the engine and gearbox together so the whole thing had to come out again. We agreed 5hrs labour for that job so JV was close with 4hrs. If I hadn't had to pay to have the car shipped back to me then I'd have taken it out again myself as it's not especially hard as others have said. It's not like your average tin top whose engine has umpteen bits and wires attached to it. Caterham have wisely made it about as easy as possible to get it in and out. You pretty much just disconnect the wiring loom, free the engine from its mounts and then remove it. Only other thing you must do is remove the alternator from the front of the engine so it will clear the chassis rails. That's easy though too, a spanner on the tensioner pulley twisted will have the belt off in seconds, then just a few bolts holding the alternator on. Alternatively, if you'd really rather not do it, any competent mechanic who knows a 7 will be able to do the job, it really doesn't require an intimate understanding of the Duratec in particular, they aren't going to do anything with the engine once it's out after all. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Thanks all. I am tempted to have a go on my own...but with personal time limited I'm concerned it will remain part dismantled / part assembled whilst the summer months tick by ! I'll be giving JW a call today for a quote / booking it in. Maybe next time I'll be braver and have a go myself ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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