Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 So, quick pre evening meal blat turns into nightmare. Somewhere between Rufford and Parbold, on a right hand bend the car hit a pothole / sunken grid. The hole bounced the rear out a little, and from there it aqua planned sideways into the kerb. Load bang from n/s rear suspension. I've crawled her home at 20mph - thanks all the impatient drivers for sounding your horns and gesticulating, that helped. She feels crap to drive, and a little unnerving. I can only describe it as like riding a bike with a badly buckled rear wheel. You can feel your ar$e wobbling sideways. From a quick look I can see that the n/s rear is noticeably toe-in. There is a large crack running the width of the underside of the de dion ear. I think the front n/s also hit the kerb, and has at least been knocked out of track. The steering wheel has also settled about 20 degrees clockwise from TDC when the car is traveling straight. I don't feel at all confident in assessing all the damage and I'm worried I'll miss something. I suspect this is beyond my ham fists to repair, but first thing I need is an accurate and complete idea of what's goosed. Is there anyone around tomorrow, Sunday, who could get to Sunny Leyland Lancs, who knows about such thinks and could take a look and give me the some advice? If not tomorrow, what about next weekend? Thanks in advance. Edited by - nigel mercer on 8 Sep 2013 14:52:55 Edited by - nigel mercer on 14 Sep 2013 18:05:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Sorry can't help with the assessment but don't forget you may be able to claim damages off the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweeky Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Nigel, When the roads are quiet nip out with a camera and a 6inch rule take as many photos and measure depths /sizes of offending hole/issues. You can used these for your own needs with your claim against the council/insurance Take photos of damage done to car too. post some piccys on here so you can get a rough assesment of whats bent/broken and damaged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickh7 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Nigel , sorry to hear about this , best advice is to get it too a Seven specialist as an impact like that needs a full professional check . if the ear has gone odds on the whole de dion tube has . I am sure someone on your area can help you move it with a trailer . Good advice about getting some pics taken It can be be repaired so I know its gutter but take the opportunity to sort a few upgrades , every cloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin J Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sorry to hear about your bump Nigel. ☹️ I'm just thinking outside the box a bit as to what tyres you have on the car? Am I right in thinking that your car was the one was laid up for a quite a time by the previous owner & in which case the tyres may be fairly old. Which tyres do you have? If you have the Avon ZV3's or earlier equivalent I would get rid of them. There have been many discussions on here about tyres, hard tyres like those can be tricky if conditions are marginal. I speak from experience. You have the same 14inch wheels as me & a really worthwhile upgrade would be to change to Yokohama AO21R tyres. They transformed my car. I hope you are back up & running soon. Edited by - Martin Jeffrey on 8 Sep 2013 08:34:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Martin, it came with ZV3's but they were victim of the first upgrade. She's sat on 2,500 mile old AO21R's now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 So, some pictures. First the damaged De Dion ear. I've marked the visible cracks... And this one with better mood lighting From the rear, I can see a crack at the top of the ear, but it doesn't look like it's gone all the way through to the back Nothing else seems to be damaged from my limited knowledge... At the front, again I can't see any damage but the angle of the track rod ends seem different when comparing n/s and o/s (n/s took the hit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I can't tell from pics, but have you got a bent steering arm? Check how far track rod end is from disc. Steering arms seem to bend easily and are cheap and easy to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team c7trp Posted September 8, 2013 Support Team Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi Nigel YHM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted September 8, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'd replace the broken dedion ear, and then check the rear alignment. (measuring a dedion tube off the car is even more tricky) It's quite possible that the Dedion tube is also a little bent. Depoending on the magnitude of any bend, its quite possible to add shims to correct the toe or camber. I've run with a slightly bent dedion tube, but shimmed to realign, for several years (before my Shelsley Walsh "off"). The wheels were pointing exactly where I wanted them to after shimming. As Nigel says, check the distance of the trackrod end to the disc (with the car on level ground and pointind straight) to check for a bent steering arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-B Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Nigel, I'd say the DeDion is to be replaced and it looks like an arm too at the minimum. Go take pictures and file a claim -- this isn't obnoxiously expensive but you certainly should not be driving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpa Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi Nigel, the pics of the front don't really show much - the track-rod end is just twisted on its bearing( you can just rock it back and forth normally). put a straight edge against the track-rod itself and you may be able to see if it's bent. If the steering is a long way out, the rack may be damaged. The dedion tube is really quite hard to damage - I've seen quite a few in racing. It looks like the ear has taken most of the damage, but you'll probably find that the bearing carrier has slightly twisted lugs on it as well. When the dedion takes a hard side-impact, it can twist the A-frame and/or damage the dedion/A-frame bushes. Look at the A-frame mountings on the chassis for any twisting/cracks. Let me know if you decide to do it yourself - I have spare dedion tube/A-frame/ears/bearing carriers from a car I stripped ages ago, that had had frontal damage. BTW - edit your subject to say where you want help - you may get some more local attention. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.S Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Nigel, I can't be more than a couple of miles from you, Stu Faulds is your man down in Stafford. BM me, can probably loan a trailer, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 James, thanks for the offer of a trailer - I'll keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickh7 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 What year is the car ? I've got a new A frame you could have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Quoting nickh7: What year is the car ? I've got a new A frame you could have It's an early '92 kit that was registered 09/93. Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully the ear took the force and nothing else is damaged at the rear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted September 9, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted September 9, 2013 It's an early '92 kit that was registered 09/93. Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully the ear took the force and nothing else is damaged at the rear Nigel Are you sure? I thought it was a 2003 registered car. Sorry I 've not been able to offer any help as I've got a lot on at the moment preparing for trip to Picos. Give me a ring if I can offer some advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Quoting Paul Richards: It's an early '92 kit that was registered 09/93. Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully the ear took the force and nothing else is damaged at the rear Nigel Are you sure? I thought it was a 2003 registered car. Sorry I 've not been able to offer any help as I've got a lot on at the moment preparing for trip to Picos. Give me a ring if I can offer some advice. DOH! You see what I did there? I subtracted 10 from 2013 and got 1993 *redface* It IS an early 2002 kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 With big thanks to c7trp... Rear end was taken apart and checked this morning. Looks like I got away with it lightly. The only obvious damage is to the DeDion ear which is now on my garage floor in two pieces. The plate on the end of the DeDion tube is bent inwards ever so slightly at the bottom left, but we can't decide if this is accident damage or if it left Caterham like this. If the plate had bent as a result of the force of the impact, would there necessarily be any visible sign of the metal being stressed? Cracks to the weld, ripples or flakes in the coating, or surface "stress" marks on the milled surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 Quoting simonpa: Let me know if you decide to do it yourself - I have spare dedion tube/A-frame/ears/bearing carriers from a car I stripped ages ago, that had had frontal damage. Simon, YHM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Quoting Nigel Mercer: With big thanks to c7trp... Rear end was taken apart and checked this morning. Looks like I got away with it lightly. The only obvious damage is to the DeDion ear which is now on my garage floor in two pieces. The plate on the end of the DeDion tube is bent inwards ever so slightly at the bottom left, but we can't decide if this is accident damage or if it left Caterham like this. If the plate had bent as a result of the force of the impact, would there necessarily be any visible sign of the metal being stressed? Cracks to the weld, ripples or flakes in the coating, or surface "stress" marks on the milled surface? I'd be 99% certain that the DD tube is bent from that impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 A corner of the ear bending is usually accident damage. The main problem is whether a new ear will be distorted when it is bolted up to the De Dion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lynch Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Did almost exactly same last year . Buckled a Wheel, Dedion Ear Cracked and Tube end Flange bent. Car looked very sorry and felt like a skid control car as I tiptoed home with 25° +ve camber and 10° Toe in. 😔 Replaced.... Wheel, Dedion Tube, Dedion Ears, Radius Arms, All Bolts, ARB Links. Also... Lifted fuel tank and stripped and POR-15'd all the chassis I could get to. I initially kept the Bent DeDion tube to repair but figured it had had a good 18 years (and I couldn't be bothered to do the work and repaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team c7trp Posted September 14, 2013 Support Team Share Posted September 14, 2013 Nigel glad to be of assistance to Mrs Nigel for looking after us. As much as you can tell with the tube in the car, I don't think its bent. Sighting along it as best you can, it looks to be true. At best the flange on the tube is bent ~0.5mm inwards at the bottom left. However the flange isn't perfectly flat anyway. It has a 'hump' in it, presumably from heat distortion from welding where it has been welded to the tube. I would have thought that the entire un-restrained (left hand) side of the flange would be significantly distorted before a tube itself bends. TBH I have not inspected a known good tube for accuracy or flatness, but from what I could see the damage is very minor. If anyone has a DD tube to hand, perhaps they could measure how flat it actually is? To be 100% sure it would need to come out, but I expect, having seen it, a new ear appropriately shimmed followed by a geometry check would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted September 15, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted September 15, 2013 I'd measure the toe, and then check using string to see is one side is turning in or out more than the other. I'd also be surprised if the tube is not bent to some degree. I think its actually easier to assess a tube for bend with the car fully assembled rather than trying to check the two ends of the tube are parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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