oil warmers

[Pat the Plumber]

here has anybody tried these, or is there a better way to heat the oil prior to a cold start up

[Jonathan Kay]

What's the setting... general use in an ordinary car? Are you prepared to open the bonnet and put things in and out, or do you need something slicker than that?

 

Jonathan

 

 

[Gridgway]

yep we use those on a Radical. Depends on what problem you are trying to solve.

 

They do work to warm up the thing they are attached to. But if for example you do heat up a wet sump then you have all the cold things that cool it down - like coolant. Or oil in a cooler that's cold.

 

We have a coolant heater as well (as a dry sump heater) and if you use them both and run the engine some to circulate the fluids the heaters do work. Of course you have a radiator and oil cooler that are both trying to cool them down again!

 

HTH

GRaham

[Domus]

Ad reads "Remember, Heat Rises"

 

I thought warm air rises.

[Pat the Plumber]

Was thinking of fitting to the base of the oil tank,(dry sump) just to give the oil a bit of a headstart. Surely any heat is a benefit.

What water heater do you use then?

[Gridgway]

I think it depends on what you need to achieve. If you have a road engine that heats up and you want to reduce the time, then I don't think an oil heater is really going to get you far.

 

The coolant heater is the kenlowe one here). It circulates as well as heats coolant. So together with the oil heater it can do a job. You need a good hour to make a sensible difference plus a good supply of amps. Power in the paddock can be a challenge!

 

GRaham

[Golf Juliet Tango]

In the 1960s my parents used to put a small paraffin heater under the sump on chilly nights.

[Anton]

*arrowup*

 

I remember those - shaped rather like a flying saucer with a mesh top!

[Jonathan Kay]

100W light bulb in a Party 7 can.

 

Jonathan

[Golf Juliet Tango]

If you can still find an incandescent lamp.

[johnv]

or a party 7 can (it has to be watney's red barrel, mind)

[Jerry Auton]

-

I have had the Kenlowe Pre-Heaters (coolant) on several vehicles, however, none with an oil temp gauge, so unable to say if the oil temp increases particularly swiftly but they are very effective on the water temp. I use a tubular heater like one of these under the sump during the coldest part of winter

 

Edited by - Jerry on 19 Jan 2013 13:00:29

[Gridgway]

the trouble is that unless you can really get bulk temperature into the engine, the coolant and the oil at the same time, it's not going to be very effective.

[Birkin S3 ZA.]

I did have one that I fitted to the side of my Raceline sump with a three pin connector under the dash, it worked very well……… for three days. ☹️ Then nothing I was told I had not fitted it correctly, having sanded the sump and cleaned as per instructed I was not at fault. It took me a long time to remove so I know it had bonded well. As posted it heated only the oil up to 55 deg C, when it was started it dropped quickly to 20 deg.

I fitted a mocal laminar heat exchanger and fitted a full under tray, It now warms fast and stays cool.

Hope this helps

Chris.

 

[K T Scott]

I have been talking with Premier Power re uprgrading my 150 Sigma engine. We have discussed a number of upgrade options including Heat Exchangers.

 

Premier Power are marketing heat exchangers which they offer to fit on all their engines. The unit fits in the cooling system and not only helps warm up engine oil but also control maximum oil temperature. They say that a lot of engine failures these days are caused by bearing failures due to oil temperature issues. A lot of the engines fitted in Caterhams are modified standard road car engines and running on standard bearing shells. Because of the nature of these cars, cars are often driven too hard when first started, or too hard on hot oil. Its possible a lot of owners probably aren't even aware what their oil temperature is. Premier Power have done a lot of testing with these units fitted on both their race cars and road cars. Fitting an oil cooler can make the situation even worse, this will prolong the warm up time for the oil to get up to operating temperature increasing engine wear. The other thing, should you have an oil cooler fitted and suffer an engine failure, you will need to replace the cooler as you cannot guarantee there is no debris in the cooler. With a heat exchanger fitted, these can be stripped and cleaned. The heat exchanger doesn't need to be fitted near the radiator like an oil cooler, reducing hose lengths and improving radiator cooling efficiency. In their experience they haven’t seen an increase in coolant temperature, running these units. Improving oil temperature stability means your oil should last longer as it isn't having to work so hard, which therefore means engines should last longer.

 

See link below for feature on their website.

 

here

 

As you’ll see if you run one of their management systems they’ll even limit the engine revs until oil temperature has reached operating temperature. Clever stuff!!

 

I hope this helps

[The_ASH]

An interesting subject and one I thought about while I had Sevens. My original trade was in the refrigeration industry, compressors are fitted with crankcase heaters to keep oil warm and for various other reasons, I have often mused about how that technology could be applied to cars especially ones where you'd like to be 'on it' soon after getting the car out for a blat.

 

3 types of heater seemed common, the simplest usually used on hermetic comps was of the same construction as a very long jubilee clip and could be employed on a DS tank. The second type was ceramic and usually pocketed into a hermetic comp, this could be employed on a wet sumped car but would need the pocket welding into the sump. The third type was a simple short bar heater but would have to be attached to the side of the sump to minimise ground clearance probs.

Obviously all of the above would be costly to run but with a timer set for say 4am on a Sunday the cars engine would be nice and warm come the time to go out, water heating could be added in a similar way at the bottom of the rad if it was not the plastic type. One of the main safety considerations would be earthing and also ease of isolation/disconnection to avoid a shocking 'surprise' come Blattime!

[OliverSedlacek]

I've been using a Kenlowe hotstart on the tintop and it's very useful. Depending on ambient temperature I run it for between 30 mins to an hour. There's no oil temperature gauge, but the engine doesn't run on the 'choke' at all, and you get cabin heat straight away. This was the main rationale for it, as it means the windscreen gets defrosted quickly.

[7 wonders of the world]

The problem with warming things thro in order to be 'on it' from the off is the rest of the components are cold, - tyres, wheel bearings, gearbox, final drive, brakes etc etc.

 

Since few people commute daily with a 7 inside the artic circle why not just get in and drive it normally? usually 5-6 miles and all is warmed through properly.

 

A Laminova or Modine will help getting the oil up to temp faster but is detrimental to peak ideal operating temps for these fluids, essentially pegging them both at the same temp, which is not ideal.

[AMMO]

I agree.

[Birkin S3 ZA.]

With a Raceline sump only, temp on the road was 80C water 60C oil, fast road was 80C water 110C oil, track 85C water 130C oil. Fitted the laminova, oil warm up was 1/2 the time, as you point out it was close to water temp on the road but oil was warmer than without one.

Fitted a full under tray with sump sticking out of the bottom, on the road 80C water 90C oil, air flow was cooling the oil quite a lot.

Track work was 80/85C water 115/120 oil and that was for about 30 laps up to 130mph for 1 hour, the oil I use is castrol edge 10w 40

And as far is I know it wont get better than this with a wet sump, dry sump would be inside the under tray. and oil would go up by 5/10 Deg C when on the road.

I wont tell you the ambient temp that would upset you.

Chris

[AMMO]

Interesting about the undertray and your oil and coolant temperatures Chris. I never fitted an undertary to my car. Might give it a try.

 

From around 2005 all my Duratec engines have run oversized water pump pulleys that I had made. Temperatures on my engines fitted with my pulleys will be different to ones without. The idea behind the pulley was mainly not to have cavitation problems at high rpm (the engines in a Mondeo will be revving less than in a Caterham) and reduce parasitic losses.

 

Even for my my old Zetec I had smaller crank pulley made to slow both the water pump and alternator.

 

My own 260 bhp 2 litre Duratec warms up quite quickly on the coolant side but needs around 6 miles to get the oil at a temperature where I can start revving the engine. It runs a still under development wet sump and no oil cooler. The temperatures are fine once I am under way. Even on my own rare visits to the track I have not had any temperature problems. More spirited drivers would probably see different temperatures to me.

 

I prefer not to run a Laminova on my own car due to expense, extra weight and complication. Having said that everyone should monitor their own oil and coolant temperatures and make their own mind up what is best for them.

 

Not all engines are the same, run in the same ambient conditions or are driven in the same manner. One of the main problems I used to have was people sticking oil coolers on when they really didn't need one at all. Cold oil temperature worry me more than hot ones.

 

 

 

[Birkin S3 ZA.]

Yes we think alike,and I do run a aluminum under drive front pully.

Chris.