300hp N/A Engine Options?

[Tim Smith]

A friend of mine is looking at engine options for a Chevette HS rally/trackday car he is building, he's not keen on the original 2.3l engine it came with and is looking for some naturally aspirated alternatives. Ideally he's after around 300hp with a bit of torque but the torque idea isn't an absolute must have, more the power output. Target weight for the car is 850kg so V8 American boat anchors are not in the frame here.

 

He mentioned the Millington Diamond engines and I could think of 2.3l Duratec and RST V8. What's the small V6 Mickrick has in his car?

 

Any other suggestions, recommendations and links to suppliers would be most appreciated. Is Ammo still building engines, I vaguely remember he got out of it?

 

 

[Croc]

If you are thinking RST V8 then cost is no object and the Hartley V8 would be in the same market:

here

 

There is a similar style of V8 engine being done in NZ - Synergy:

here

 

I think the V6 you might be thinking of was a RST option 🤔

 

Edited to fix links

 

Edited by - Croc on 15 Nov 2012 16:09:22

[keybaud]

Quoting Tim Smith: 

Ideally he's after around 300hp with a bit of torque but the torque idea isn't an absolute must have, more the power output.

 

As bhp is related to torque, this request seems a little misplaced.

 

bhp = torque * rpm/5252

 

As low torque with high bhp is provided by high RPM, is he actually asking for a high RPM engine or does he want a light-weight engine?

 

Edited by - keybaud on 15 Nov 2012 16:43:05

[Tim Smith]

Quoting keybaud: 

 

As bhp is related to torque, this request seems a little misplaced.

 

 

Good to see the pedants are alive and well, I'd never have worked out that torque is related to power. 😬

 

My friend is unsure what he wants, he knows he wants 300bhp, likes the idea of having some torque but wants a relatively lightweight motor, hence the no American V8 statement. The principle behind my request is to get an idea of what's out there in the way of engines in a variety of configurations and doubtless a very wide cost range too.

[rj]

An AMMO Duratec?

 

A V6 Duratec, which has been mildly breathed on?

[Roger King]

Hart 420R perhaps. A ready made four cylinder lump with 300bhp as standard. And it's the right era for the car.

 

Does his car have the original HS twincam 16c engine? If it has, some of the parts are as rare as hens teeth. So much so that even when I was building the works engines at DTV in the late 70's/early 80's we had to resort to buying cylinder heads from private owners to get adequate supply. If it's a genuine original HS, we may well have had the head long ago and given the owner a tweaked single cam top end + cash!

 

If the engine is the 16v version, it's well worth considering using it. You can easily get 260bhp, but torque is mega - and it's far more robust than a BDA.

 

 

[Molecular--Bob]

Jag 3.0 v6, weighs ~120kg on throttle bodies with a pace dry sump pan fitted. Piper do cams that will get a stock engine to 300hp and bomb proof at stock rpm limit and if it will fit in a 7 here, then a chevette should be ok.

[Tim Smith]

Roger, I believe he does have the original 16v engine and possibly a spare 16v head too. I think the idea is to sell off the original stuff to use the money to part fund something a bit more modern.

 

Jag 3.0 V6 is definitely interesting and well beyond anything I had thought of.

 

 

 

Edited by - Tim Smith on 15 Nov 2012 17:51:48

[elie boone]

Supercharged Duratec ? it would loose a lot of it's value without the original engine, if he does then he should better sell the whole car and buy a replica, less engine that will generate enough cash for the engine

[rgrigsby]

Ammo has certainly built a few 2.1l+ Duratec's with 300bhp or more so that is an option.

[OliverSedlacek]

Rover V8

[DSL]

I'm now aware of a 296bhp SBD 2ltr Duratec thatsbeing used in a Chiron sports prototype. It was fitted to replace a disappointing under performing Cosworth supplied motor....

[Tim Smith]

Quoting OliverSedlacek: 

Rover V8

 

I'll admit I don't know the exact weight but suspect the Rover V8 falls into the boat anchor category 🤔[:E

[Roger King]

Lighter than a Crossflow actually; but it is all aluminium.

 

Going back to the HS engine, I don't know what they're worth because I don't know the demand for them, but he definitely doesn't want to be disposing of it for peanuts - unless he wants to sell to me of course.

 

There were only ever 400 HS Chevettes built and around 50 of those were later converted into HSR's. And anyone in the know will tell you that these "official" homologation numbers were likely an exaggeration. So far as I know, the engine was never used in any other vehicle, so they make the BDA that Ford used seem commonplace. Incidentally, the Lotus 907 cylinder head will fit on the block as a direct swap.

[Gridgway]

What about the radical V8? It is getting used in quite a lot of applications now outside of radicals...eg S American Touring cars. It would also seem to have got super reliable this year judging by watching them race alongside us in our lesser radicals.

 

Powertec Ted is a nice chap and very approachable too.

 

ETA I think there was one in a old-stylee mini at the Brands mini festival this year.

 

Graham

 

Edited by - Gridgway on 15 Nov 2012 22:58:23

[Pendennis]

DSL, if that 296bhp SBD engine is the same one as I think it is, that is exactly same spec as mine, and mine didn't make 296bhp 😬

[Mabbs]

I used to have an HS Chevette, I learned to drive in a terrible brown Chev and was fascinated by the idea of a 2300. Ace sound but non car people really didn't get it

[Roger King]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that if he really does have a genuine HS Chevette, he shouldn't be chopping it about for a track car. As I've said before, they're very rare.

[Wrightpayne]

Roger,

 

I was into my Vauxhall's when I first passed my test. I'd always thought that the HS 2.3 16v engine was the same as the lotus esprit 4 pot engine. My assumtion might be based on the engines cam cover arrangement looking very similar.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Roger King]

A convoluted history here. The Lotus head was designed to fit the Vauxhall block so Lotus would have a large capacity four cylinder lump available. For various reasons, they eventually decided to make their own aluminium block as well.

 

So the Lotus engine is entirely different to, but very similar (and with some interchangeable parts) to the HS engine. The 16v head used in the Chevette HS is unrelated to the Lotus version. It just happened that two different companies developed a 16v head for the same engine.

 

Those of you old enough to remember will recall that Vauxhall were disqualified from rallying for a period in the 1970's when the scrutineers realised that we were in fact using the Lotus top end on the engine and not the homologated Vauxhall cylinder head. The Lotus head has some advantages and it was just assumed that no-one would realise what was going on. We weren't allowed to compete again until the car was re-engineered to use the Vauxhall parts.

 

Incidentally, the Vauxhall set up uses cam carriers with a flat faced top so the cam cover gaskets seal well. The Lotus carriers for years used a pointless and ridiculous curved top face that was almost impossible to seal the covers to, so leaks were common.

[Jason Plato]

Roger

I do enjoy your nuggets of info and history that appear on here every now and again 😶‍🌫️

[Roger King]

Thank you,

 

It brings a tear to my eye when I look back sometimes - and realise how old I am.

[DSL]

Pendennis, I had an email from the owners telling me that figure but as they were in Oz at the time the dyno run was carried out over here he could well be misguided 😳

 

What did it / yours make 🤔

 

Was yours the 290+spec 🤔

[Jason Plato]

it's not about how old you are .... it's what you have done and done well !

 

[ soppy mode OFF]

[Pendennis]

Hi DSL, I may not be referring to the same engine, is it for sale? The one I thought/think you was referring to is/was for sale, has same internals and cannot see it getting there even with double injectors and rev'd more. I probably am not referring to the same engine

My engine was not that spec, but it did make more than the specification