Alexander Gurr Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I am getting to the stage where I need to secure my rear wings to the car and given that it is going to be an Academy car I was wondering whether rivets are really the best way, or whether there is another way of securing them that wont damage the ali side skin should it gat a tap. Does anyone know of another method or should I just stick with the rivets? Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Rear wings are normally bolted on not riveted ANd racers tend to use fewer blots and plastic ones at that so they can snap off easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The panel fixings are Rivnuts. The set sctrews cab replaced with nylon which snap off in an impact avoiding damage to the ali skin. Another, less widely advocated but possibly better alternative, is to use rubber Wellnuts, also with nylon screws. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalongbloke Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I didn't use rivets, but nylon bolts, either into rivnuts (where access is difficult or blind), or into stainless nuts behind panels. That way the bolt rips and not the panel. Top Tip... use am open ended spannewr to tighten nylon bolts. A socket will round off the head very quickly. Good luck... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalongbloke Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 At least we agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Gurr Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks guys Any recommendations for suppliers of nylon bolts? Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Any recommendations for suppliers of nylon bolts? Karsten used to do kits for this job there was a big rush on them some yrs ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 12, 2011 Member Share Posted October 12, 2011 eBay. IIIRC Mine are M5. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalongbloke Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 M5 here too. Google namrick in hove.... Mail order also fab for everything stainless. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Redline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamV Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I got my nylon bolts and washers from www.nylonalloys.co.uk/ Order in multiples of 100 but cheap and efficient. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The "Trev Newman" school of thought says to bolt your racing wings on as solidly as possible. Then when you hit someone (not that Trev ever did that ... much) their wing comes off and yours stays in place. Might not work in the Academy, though, as lots of people won't have figured out the plastic bolt trick. One other thing - if you're going for "easily removable", make sure you the rear light connector is outside the car, and file off the tag that keeps it together. Then it'll just pull apart when the wing comes off. Otherwise, it'll rip all the wires out which makes it much more of a pain to reconnect. Unrelated though crossed my mind - do Sigmas have an inertia cut-out switch? I would strongly recommend removing that, if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurtene Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Quoting Roger Ford: Unrelated though crossed my mind - do Sigmas have an inertia cut-out switch? I would strongly recommend removing that, if they do. Yes they do but I'm not sure removing it is a good idea - I've seen a few Caterhams on their roof in the last year and they're supposed to help in this situation... However, I agree that they're a pain if they 'trip' going over a curb... Better to relocate it so you can press it and get going again if it does cut the engine. I have mine on the transmission tunnel beside the gear stick in case that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Some are sensitive, some less so. Mine has only ever cut in the event of a fairly serious shunt (and it is in the cockpit). Some trip when you run over curbs hard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I did see a graduates racer recommend going one step further and part-cutting through the nylon bolts so they really do shear when hit...i think they said even the nylon bolts can be too tough sometimes... I don't race etc etc so don't know how advisable this is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Just looking at your blog - for the seats - get the bolts welded into the runners!!!! On your old car - I took the seats off once, doing it the old way with screwdrivers wedged into the runners to hold the top of the nut whilst undoing underneath....took an entire day!! next time I got the bolts welded in for £20 - seat just drops into the 4 holes, and you just do up the nuts underneath...a 5 minute job! Best £20 I ever spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Or Araldite? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I tried superglue and metal putty, they both failed over time...There may be stronger/better glues available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Normuss Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Any decent r/c model shop will sell nylon bolts, we use them to hold wings on planes 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Dumb question, but if we glue the front wings on and they never fall off, why not glue on the rears? It doesn't need to be a continuous line of glue, just regular blobs IMO. Maybe use a couple of the bolts whilst the glue is curing. And on the subject of fitting rear wings, there must be a better solution to the fiddly little plastic trim strip that goes between the wing and body. Mine never sits "comfortably" despite plenty of notches to help it bend. I'd also like to know why Caterham sell this stuff in lengths way too long for one wing, just too short for two? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Griff The reason to allow the rear wings to be "knocked off" is to avoid further bodywork damage in the event of them being hit on a race track. Regarding your question about alternatives to the nasty plastic beading.... I have sealed my wings with Bond-It HA6 Marine Silicone Sealer. HA6 This looks very tidy indeed. There is a simple convex beading smmothly joining the wing to the skin. Pros: Looks very neat Easy to clean No water "leakage" from behind the wing Does not trap grit/dust and grind the paint off Duarable and cleanable surface, reponds well to polish/wax products Cons: Difficult to apply to high standard of visual acceptability (harder than sealing a bath due to having to follow a curve and the gap is not even all teh way around) Non-conformist (I have yet to see another 7 using thsi method, although a few people have commented on its neat look and asked what product was used) Makes remove/refit of wing more than a 10 minute job (Easy to cut off using a cheesewire approach, but cleaning off all the residual sealer to start afresh is time consuming. I have yet to have reason to remove them in 3 years since sealed. A racer would want to be able to change wings in the shortest time possible) Whilst on the subject of beading, I have also eradicated the beading on the inner skins. Wow - why bother fitting this low quality stuff? The inner skins look so much neater. There is no sharp edge and the ali can be dressed down to perfectly close off any gaps. It is also lighter. Maybe you can try the HA6 method. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 But surely the same is true of front and rear wings? Many of us use Sikaflex or similar (I use Tiger Seal) to hold on the fronts and they stay put really well. So I wondered why the same wasn't true for the rears, perhaps doing "dot and dab" to avoid making the joint too strong? Of course any remaining small gap after bonding could be filled with a good silicon - time to call round my plumber as he did a neat job of siliconing in the shower door. Or is Sikaflex a lot stronger than nylon bolts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Griff Sorry, just in case i did not make myself clear: I sealed the gap with the silicone. (as on would seal a bath) The wings are held in place with the nylon M5s. If they got whalloped, the rivnuts will not rip out the ali sideskins and I think teh silicone would pull apart ( it is not a structural adhesive) They are not glued on completely with the silicone. Re the fronts, they are less frequently "removed" by other competitors. When they are, teh consequences are less severe because there is no ali skin to get ripped. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks Peter, yes I'd understood about the sealer. My rear wings are presently fitted with nylon bolts (though I only track the car, not race). However the car was raced before and still has the remains of some panel damage to the O/S/R quarter just aft of the wing despite nylon bolts. I'm hoping to get this fixed over the winter but the rear panel is peppered with holes and rivnuts so aligning wing bolts is a real pain, hence wondering if anybody out there has tried the Sikaflex route on the back? I'm wondering if it's strong enough or maybe too strong and a likely cause of worse damage in an "incident". Cheers, Mike (Griff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 There are many types of Sikaflex - it is a brand so I expect they'd have something you could use. Sika 292 is what I use to fit bigheads to front wings, very strong with some flex in it - it is used to bond bits of yacht hulls together! I recon that if you used it to bond on a rear wing it would be far far stronger than plastic bolts would so maybe not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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