Caesar

I would love to contribute, but . . .

Steve, I completely respect your educated and experienced overview and comments. However, for the record, I do have to say that, when you say: "Publishing private letters even before the other party has received them is extremely rude and disrespectful. Maybe you are getting what you deserve in return." ...that I did send a copy of this letter, before sending, it to Andy Noble and asked him for his sanction beforeI post it on Blatchat and he agreed. I felt this to be polite and common courtesy. I am not sure quite what it is that I deserve, as you say, "Maybe you are getting what you deserve in return". I actually feel that I have conducted myself in an extremely polite (and patient) way in my dealings with Caterham Cars and felt it incumbent on myself to keep other owners of a CSR and, possibly, any future ones up-to date with the position. I seems that I have overstepped my mark here and, for that I apologise. I really did not know that I was abusing the Blatchat forum but, simply using it as a communication tool. In no way have I ever sought to use it as a lever in my talks with Caterham as will be apparent if you look through my postings. Rather than upset the Chairman I shall, from now, confine my negotiations with Caterham Cars themselves and no longer post here unless I blot my copybook further! david

Hi All, Many thanks for all your input, I have been following this with great interest. I am today contacting Ansar Ali to arrange a meeting at Dartford where I am informed my car is "stripped down and ready for repair" (!). I am going to ask him to read all the comments on this thread so as to get some of the measure of concern. If you have any further comments or points you would like me to bring up I would be please if you would post them here. david

I was first informed that the lack of these 'alowed' the diff fixings to work loose. So Nylock dont work? Can any CSR owner who has, hopefully, had the steel spacers fitted, roll uner the car and tell me (us) if hey can see where these spring washers are fitted. Thanks CoSwoRth it!

CSR . . . I am delighted you are not pseudonomical !! And, thanks for the input. and, Rob, I am not qualified to comment on your observations but, this sort of input and the apparant concern many seem to have, means I feel justified in digging my heels in until I get a satisfactory and, permanent, solution. From my earlier conversation, today, with CC I suddenly felt myself to be awarded an 'awkward customer' profile having to defend myself, whereas, I am being more than co-operative and only want to continue my ownership with confidence. david CoSwoRth it! Edited by - Caesar on 27 Nov 2007 19:24:45

Hi "CSR" I am not quite sure who you are but thanks for your input. Of course I haven't forgotten that "the diff bolts were fitted without spring washers when the steel spacers were fitted" as you say. And I am slightly amazed about your dismissal of the problem "There are a lot of CSRs around now, they seem to be OK." SEEM to be ok !! I rather feel that, in spite of your signature, you may not actually be an owner who has paid close on 40k for one or, you would not be so unconcerned. There is a rather strange thing here: A couple of days ago I posted an update. Today there were a couple of replies and I countered saying that I hoped I was not forgotten. GUESS WHAT, I had a call from Andy Noble this afternoon, a "courtesy call" as he called it to make sure everything was OK. When I asked whether this had been prompted by BlatChat he said "I try not to look at that" I will not go into the conversation that we had, just to say that is was less than satisfactory but, isn't it an amazing thing that, shortly after, someone has come onto this thread telling me what Andy Noble had said, defending their stance and suggesting (for the first time as far as I know on this thread) that I might "If you are really worried fit diff braces like the race cars. They will have to be slightly altered, but should put your minds at ease." May I ask, Andy, sorry "CSR", how you know so much about this solution and indeed, how you know enough about it to suggest that the braces will have to be "slightly altered" ? And, Yes, as you say, "I am really worried . . ." Reply awaited

John, If it were not the onset of winter and had I not just had a knee operation I would! I really am quite prepared to wait as long as they are actually doing something about it but it is this that I would like to have confirmed.

I am in complete agreement with all your comments regarding the poor fixing of the diff. (especially the observation that, as the steel spacers had been fitted at the 500 mile service, the car had been kept below 4k revs and driven very gently, the damage could not have occured before this time. Even if it had, they would have seen it when they changed the spacers wouldn't they?). That is why I was, initially, disappointed when Ansar Ali phoned me to say that, as far as they were concerned, simply refixing with spring washers would solve the problem. I expressed my doubt and that is why my car is not yet fixed as I have said all along, not a repair, a resolution! I hope CC are taking advantage of my patience: I am giving them a chance to provide a solution on a car which has had the actual failure. This is a great opportunity for them to regain confidence in their 'flagship model' and the way they address a serious design flaw. I am wondering by now, though, whether mine is gathering dust in the back of a workshop as a low priority. I hope not

UPDATE ! There is no update !!! I spoke to Ansar Ali three weeks ago who assured me he would keep a close eye on the matter and that James Gibson would keep me informed. So far I have heard no more as of now. However, I did stress, as I have said before, that I wanted a solution and Idid not mind waiting. An interesting comment from Mr Ali was that they had discussed the diff fixing with Jez Coates in the light of previous failures. His opinion was that using steel spacers instead of the ally ones and securing the diff in the frame using spring washers would solve any problems and they were confident that that was the solution. I ventured to suggest that, from the humble viewpoint of a non-engineer/designer, the fixing left a lot to be desired especially the long top bolt and the fact the diff was not hard fixed into the frame allowing for potential movement causing a fracture of the casing. His reply was that it was a rather touchy matter as "Jezz had designed the frame" !! I will keep you informed . . . CoSwoRth it!

As of today, Monday the 12th, I have not been able to talk to Mr Ali. I will keep chasing.

JUST TO KEEP THIS SUBJECT ON THE BOIL, I HAVE, TODAY SENT THE FOLLOWING LETTER TO CC. As far as I am concerned there is nothing contentious in it so am happy to post it here for the information of the many CSR owners who are corresponding with me on this matter. Ansar Ali Esq. Managing Director Caterham Cars Station Avenue Caterham, Surrey, CR3 6LB 31st November 2007. Dear Mr Ali, May I introduced myself as the CSR owner who has had his car with yourselves since the beginning of September, having suffered a major failure of the differential fixings. I would like to think that you are aware of this particular occurrence. I spoke to Andy Noble last week who, very wisely in my opinion, admitted that your workshop had made an error when fitting the replacement steel spacers and that this was the cause of the failure. My concern right now is that I am led to believe that ‘Arch’ are looking at a more substantial fixing to alleviate any further problems. Since mine will be going back to ‘Arch’ for repair to the substantial damage to the rear frame I would like to think that any improvements can be incorporated. I have been at pains since the fault occurred, to say that I do not simply want a repair, I want a resolution and to have the confidence that this will not occur again. So do the many other CSR owners that I am in contact with. I would ask you to have a look at the exact current situation of my car and give me the opportunity of talking to you face-to-face so that this difficult situation can be resolved to all our satisfaction, I can assure you of my complete co-operation towards a resolution. I actually live no more than ten minutes from your Caterham Showroom and Offices so may I suggest we meet there at your convenience. Hoping to have your written reply in the near future, Yours Sincerely, David Lashmar

Graham, I don't think I could feel it but, with all the kangarooing and the drive train shunt, it would be difficult to tell. However, I had had this before the 500 mile service so before CC had fitted the new spacers and it had become 'part of the car' as it were! I might, therefore not have been so aware of another knock. Nevertheless, I did hear a noise behind me when It let go: a bl00dy loud one!!

Latest (but, not final, I am sure) update regarding diff fixing on CSR. I have just spoken to Andy Noble at Caterham. He has been extremely honest and said that, as far as he could see, when CC had the car back to update the spacers, they failed to lock in the two fixing bolts; ie. there were no spring washers fitted. This caused the bolts to loosen which then allowed the diff to flex and sheared the top lugs. They say that the car will be returned to Arch for repairs. I have to say that I am extremely pleased that Andy did not try and shift the blame but I am rather unhappy that it happened at all. I need to think a little more about this especially in the light of RWHomer’s comments here on blatchat, I quote:- “ Jez Coates is now at Arch. I spoke to Bruce at Arch about diff bracing and he was going to ask Jez to have a look at it (there is no better person to do so). They have just built another CSR chassis which Jez is looking at - but it will be much better if Jez oversees repair and neccessary bracing mods on yours with the diff in situ.” I really do want to know the results of their investigations. I will be pretty fed up if they simply repair mine and then incorporate modifications to the frame subsequently. If it were a medical problem I would want a second opinion! Your comments and observations welcome. I will keep you posted.

Yes Paul, Since mine has to go back to Arch to rectify the damage to the tubes caused by the diff dropping and, since this will incurr the removal of the tank, I am rather hoping they might come up with this suggestion as well!

Maybe we could have an update from darren

Just had a 'courtesy' call from Andy Noble. The car has now been at Dartford almost 6 weeks and I have heard nothing in spite of a couple of calls. It seems James Gibson has been given the job and he has been waiting to hear from 'engineering' what the cause of failure was. I stressed to Andy that I did not want a just a repair, I wanted a solution and I would rather wait until I received clarification of the reason for failure before an attempted rectification. I also said that, due to the time of year, I was not rushed to get it back but would hope to have a report sooner than later. So, posting this just to keep you updated. CoSwoRth it!

There was someone at the Baywatch run with a factory fitted spare (He was the guy with the four seat seven - he had bought two tilletts and strapped them on the back!). When I specced mine I took the option (and paid for it) of a spare wheel. When all the cardboard boxes arrived it was apparant that this had not been included (nor had the spare wheel). On investigation I was told that it was no longer an option. For reasons discussed elsewhere I anticipate mine being back at Arch soon for some work on the rear end, I shall take the opportunity to get them to add a couple of tubes under the rear frame and also a boss on the back panel. The idea is that I can slide in and lock into place, either a carrier for the spare, a larger one for spare and suitcase or remove it completely if I wish. Should not be too difficult and I completely agree with Paul, I want the facility to carry a spare as I intend to do a fair ammount of european touring and I would not feel confident with a tin of foam! CoSwoRth it!

Ally spacers, Steel spacers . . . I reckon its all down the the long top bolt and having only four fixings to the frame instead of the possible six provided by the casting. But, what do I know, I am only the driver not the designer. As long as it gets sorted we will all be pleased but, I bet you CSR owners are coming off the line with a few less revs now !!

My replacement steel spacers were fitted by the factory at the 500 mile service and, since I am not one to belt a new engine within these few miles (max revs 4k) the old ally ones had had no stress at all, unless the kangarooing had caused an early fracture: mmm.... There is another point worth mentioning: to allow equal length half-shafts (in fact, the same on each side apart from the speed ring) the diff is now pushed hard to the right hand bushes with spacers thus allowing even more freedom to flex the mount. They cannot now say none had gone bust with the steels 'cos mine has, big style and, I fear, there will be more. However, I have now had a call from the excellent Mister J Gibson at Dartford who is 'looking after it'. Watch this space.

I am back and have phoned Andy Noble yesterday and called in to caterham today for an update, so far I have not heard anything but will keep you posted as soon as I hear from them. They have had it three weeks so they should be able to make a report by now. I have insisted that I do not want a 'repair' but a resolution to the problem; mine let go and, one day, yours may as well. The inherently weak link is the fact that the diff is not bolted tight into the frame but can whip on the long bolt running through the top two lugs. Have a look at it here here - I guess CC were so proud of this construction once, they used it on this page. I am not so sure they would now!!

I have told CCs Andy Noble in a recent conversation that I will be away on holiday until the 4th October and hope to have their comments by then. My silence on this forum over the next two weeks is therefore explained! CoSwoRth it!

The diff in the CSR sits in a triangulated frame which also holds the IRS etc. However, the diff is not located tight into the frame but has to have large spacers (about 2" in all) to position the top between the mounting bushes. I feel this is the problem since it allows for some possible twist on the long top bolt which effectively shears the top lugs. I have to say that it appears that ALL my mountings failed as the diff dropped 4" and if it were not for the (now bent) frame tubes, would have dropped on to the ground! As I said before, big mess! CoSwoRth it!

It was mine that went at Dunsfold, Saturday. Big mess to the frame around it, as it dropped it hit two of the frame tubes and bent the hell out of them, This is a 'back to Arch' job I reckon. I had the upgraded steel spacers fitted by Dartford but these are clearly not enough. I feel the long top bolt can still whip a little, sufficient to break the diff lugs, this is what seems to have happened to mine. Really not suprising when you see how thin this top bolt is and how much rubber there is on the ground with 260bhp being directed through the diff there is going to be some rotational torque and the diff casing is, in my opinion, not sufficiently firmly located. It is with Caterham at the moment and I am waiting for them to contact me and I will keep you posted here. BUT, I urge all CSR owners to check with CC and, in the meantime, drive with caution. CoSwoRth it!

Thanks, see you there *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* *wavey* CoSwoRth it!