ScottR400D

7 minutes ago, Rob Mullan said:

I think this matter is worth clarifying.

When I bought my car from Caterham Gatwick I had no reason not to believe they were Caterham themselves. When I collected my car they gave me the attached 'Congratulations!' letter. It has two addresses: 'Head Office and Factory' and 'Caterham Gatwick", but only one company number and one VAT registration number. When Gatwick's service department closed Caterham's marketing suggested a smooth transition, with the servicing moving to HWM. There was no indication that this was anything other than the same operation in a different building.

Here is an extract from a contemporary press release, still on the Caterham website:

When I contacted Caterham to raise the issues covered in this thread I received an email which opened with this:

"Just to clarify, HWM are an authorised appointed Caterham franchised dealer and as with all car dealers in the UK, operate their own business.  They are not a continuation of Caterham Gatwick which was the dealer previously representing Caterham in the area, but are there to offer customers sales, service and repair work.  Caterham as a manufacturer does not have a service department and Caterham Gatwick operated as a dealership in its own right."

I wonder how many other people were aware that this was the case.

It is not exactly convenient for me to take my car to Horsham, let alone Gatwick (I live in Reading). If I had known there was no genuine benefit in taking it to Caterham I would have gone to an independent specialist much closer to home.

Caterham Ownership letter.pdf 259.32 kB · 0 downloads

The HWM thing is recent. CC just dumping another responsibility onto someone else who seems determined to milk the opportunity. 
Having said that, CC were never that special in terms of servicing/repairs. Just expensive.
You’d be much better off with one of the established after market places if there’s one close. 
To be fair most of them seem to charge like wounded buffaloes but HWM, from what I’ve read are up there with the best. (Or worst!) 

On 09/12/2023 at 08:18, Phil G said:

Hi Rob,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. It's situations like this that that highlight how far Caterham have to go to restore customer confidence (take heed Mr Lashley).

 

How right you are. How far they have to go and how little real effort they make. 

They sidestep every issue and nothing has changed since Laishley took over. Nothing.

Its often been says but remains true, there’s no interest from them once you’ve bought.  
 

Left handed? 

Just as likely they’re just badly finished. 

No they’re not built to withstand a British winter with salt on the roads. But I doubt they’re built to any standard that tests corrosion resistance, if I’m honest. 

 But £1500 to change a couple of headlights? If that’s not a joke it’s a;disgrace. 

On 12/11/2023 at 13:51, BigCol said:

That was precisely my situation and what Steve did to my diff last winter…. but it’s not silent! 🥲

That said, am I misdiagnosing the noise?  Might it not be the diff?

At about 40/50mph and above, there is a whirring/grinding noise from behind/to my left when on throttle.  Lifting off, all’s quiet as it is at lower speeds.

Is this noise definitely there under power? Many of us get a chattering of the CWP when on a very light throttle. Disappears under power or on overrun. 
 

I discussed this with Steve P and he thinks it’s the CWP being excited by the firing pulses and light flywheel. It seems to do no harm and is easily avoided by either changing down or giving it a little more or less throttle. 

16 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Thanks BigCol, I have the instructions from ScottR400D which are very helpful. I think i should be ok now, but I’ll be sure to ask if I get stuck!

I have the diff out and will speak with SPD and arrange a visit early next week for fault diagnosis and replacement. I’ve ordered the replacement bolts etc from CC, apart from the nylon spacers as they are out of stock, has anyone found an alternative source for these?

What has happened with all the faulty Titan diffs? Has anyone found a market for these? 

Thanks to everyone for all their assistance and advice, it’s much appreciated. 

The nylon spacers (for the A frame?) can be got on eBay for a lot less than CC. From memory they’re 30 x 1 with 17mm hole. You might get them with 16mm hole but it’s easy enough to enlarge. 
 

That’s good, glad you like it. Hope the CWP is OK but think it will be as long as the diff hadn’t been run to the point of breaking apart. 

IMO, and I think anyone who's gone the same route, the Tracsport is streets ahead of the Titan by any metric. 

More reliable, totally quiet, more effective, you don’t know it’s there except for the way the car becomes much more stable under power. 

I’d got into the habit, when overtaking things, of pulling out and getting the car straight before planting the throttle. Flooring the throttle then pulling out, the car would slide and squirm, sometimes it would do that if you hit a bump mid acceleration. In hindsight the Titan was pretty well worn for quite some miles before it let go but at only 7k odd miles from brand new, I didn’t question its condition. 

Never had to do that with the TS. Now the car goes exactly where it points and is much more predictable. Now coming up to the same miles at which the Titan went bang and the preload hasn’t dropped at all, the oil shows mild discolouration only and it functions as it always has. 

If you're going to just be on road/touring you might consider an ATB but if you plan any track stuff I could only recommend the TS. 

I drafted a set of instructions for removing and replacing the diff if you’d find it useful, others on here have. PM me if so. 

51 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Possibly carbon plates in this one (May 2018).......I checked the diff and there was less than 12lbft of preload (that was the lowest my torque wrench goes down to) I extracted some oil today to check the condition, it's very black, although doesn't smell like it's been overheated. The diff is quiet which I hope means the CW & P are still in good condition. I just need to decide which way I go from here.......

Not necessarily carbon and I’m pretty sure that they started with sintered quite a while before 18, though I could be wrong. Maybe not.  
 

Is this the car you were only looking at a few weeks ago? Did you buy? 

1 hour ago, Andy135 said:

I've seen that content on RRT's site before but it doesn't seem to support @7 wonders of the world's statement above. Unless I'm missing something? 

One thing about RRT’s stuff, plate diffs definitely do not all fit with ‘Turning at lower speeds will cause some noise, slight wheel hopping, and a general lack of smoothness from the differential. This is normal, the friction plates slip and bind causing the noise.’

Certainly the Titan is the epitome of that but the Tracsport shows none of those characteristics. 

I wonder what significant involvement DVSA might have other than asking what the remedy was. 
 

I replaced the rear stripes on my car by buying a roll of vinyl on line for not much. It was a perfect match. Still have most of 5m roll! 
My car has a twin 75mm (iirc) white stripe so colour was easy to match, may not be that easy for you. 

They are rather good at can kicking………

Any updates on this? Or is everyone just fitting the Team Leos units and forgetting about it?

I routed the harness over the fuel tank which I think is the best solution but you’ve ruled that out. 

Sintered. 

13 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Hi all, thanks for this thread. I'm looking at 2018 420R with 9k miles next week and I'm keen to check the diff condition. I've taken notes from this who have shared their knowledge on here (thank you) plus the info found in the link below: https://caterham420detailedbuildblog.co.uk/2020/10/18/differential-preload-check/

If the diff is below the 20lbft mentioned what cost should I expect to service the unit? 

Thanks for your help! is there anything else I should be aware of that won't immediately obvious?

My first post as a new member (or a returning member after 20yrs) once I find the Cat I want I look forward to joining you all on some outings.

Phil

The cost of a rebuild varies. If the bearings are OK maybe £4-500. If the whole lot needs renewing, twice that or more. I was charged over £900 for a full rebuild back in 2020. 

Plus the cost of removing and refitting the diff if you can’t do it yourself. 

At 9k/5 years I’d be having the diff rebuilt regardless of the preload. 

Have you found a source of the same housing that CC use? I believe there are variations on the BMW ‘168’ diff. 

Other than that the housings appear to be fairly precisely machined for a 7 might not be easy to get accuracy with an angle grinder! And of course you’d need to be sure the CC backplate fitted the housing. 

I assume you have a 3.9 ratio diff? I have a spare, rebuilt 3.6 with a Titan which I’d sell to you for a lot less than CC will charge but it’s no use if it’s the wrong ratio of course. 
 

You could always buy a diff from BMW and strip out the CW and P, I guess. 

1 hour ago, Ainsley said:

I did wonder about his lighter flywheel.  The 420 comes with a lighter flywheel than standard, his is claimed to be a few kg's lighter than that. 

Can you have a flywheel that's too light in the 7 ?

Yes, you can. Though I doubt that Stuart would take you in the wrong direction if you’re clear in what you want from the car. 

18 hours ago, StevehS3 said:

The sintered plate type should last much better in a 1.6 with 152hp.
Having said that I wouldn’t fit another Titan. I didn’t like the clatter and the service interval is completely unappealing to me. Also, there is no getting away from the design flaws such as over-flexing of the Belleville washer. 

You’re right, premature failure seems to be more of an issue with higher power cars, often occurring at 3-4000 miles or so. 

The noises under ‘normal’ operation though are common across the range. Some find that is acceptable and live with it. Or find that it’s alleviated with an oil with a high level of friction modifiers but that’s just masking the real issue.

I tried the RRT oil (and others) but didn’t find it made that big a difference, though some clearly do. 
 

52 minutes ago, Shortshift said:

As I feared, everyone - but with one exception.

James

 

Hear, hear!  

Some are more pitied than scorned………. 😉

8 minutes ago, GulfSeven said:

That doesn't make sense. If that was the case they wouldn't perform well at 45 or whatever when new.

They don’t, in my experience. The reason I changed to a Tracsport, in addition to having no faith in the longevity of the Titan, was the awful grunting, graunching and other horrible noises made by my expensively rebuilt Titan at lower speeds.  

Everyone I know with a Tracsport has had the same experience. Start off around 25, perhaps lose a ft.lb. or two in the early days then stay steady. I’ve also done  6k or so but Nigel Brown has done 2 or 3 times that with the same result. 
 

The only reason for the Titan to start off so high is to allow for steady and continuous degradation, as far as I can see. 

“When the prototype TITAN Mk2 is available maybe I could assist in some back to back testing. Well I do have a Tracsport BMW Diff so what better comparison. Obviously I did not turn down the invite”

Any news on that front Geoff? 

Anybody know part numbers for the 4 pot front calipers? 

Part numbers for which brake calipers?