Paul McKenzie Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I'm dry sumping my VX this winter using the Caterham DS bellhousing and a QED (non-finned) DS pan. I know there will oil cooling issues so I've decided a Laminova is going to be the best approach. Has anyone got experience of using one on a VX 🤔 - if so I'd like to know which model you used (Think Auto have three - the most compact is said to give cooling equivalent to a regular 10-row oil/air cooler, and I think this should be OK), and how you packaged the installation-photos would be appreciated. Also which model do you K-series guys use and where is it installed? What have you found before/after with oil temp? Many thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul My car has one fitted in the top coolant hose,, never had any problem with oil temps even on hot days fairly good pic of install here if you would like more info or pics drop me a line Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 Thanks for the reply Mark. A couple of questions: What is the model or length of the laminova body -102/185 or 335 mm? What size are the water/oil fittings? Where you have it packaged in the top hose is the easiest installation, but I guess you don't get the benefit of oil warm-up with the water until the stat opens. Is this the case?. or have you removed the stat, or are you not bothered about this? Cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 True. V7SLR mounted his in the main coolant-loop (OK, this is a k-series, but you'll get the picture...) here Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, I have a medium size laminova from Matt at Think The oil take-off's are -12 (but they can make them to your spec - the RST V8 has -16 for example) If you let them know when you are popping in they will make one up while you wait Matt and his team are really helpful - dont forget the 25% mine is on the n/s between engine and top rad hose. I have not tested mine in anger yet, but will let you know how I get on at the rollers tomorrow Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul mine is a 185mm, fittings are -12 I believe, didn't think about the closed Thermostat, the previous Engine didn't have one, current one has!, maybe I should remove it as Car is only ever used on track anyway. Only thing about fitting it in the top hose is I'm suffereing from Coolant expansion problems and I'd like to fit a similar system to Paul Gibb's self bleeding item (can't remember who he said designed it) and this also fits in the top hose. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Rimmer Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Anyone know the internal size of the main coolant loop ? When I fit my dry sump this winter, am planning on moving my laminova from the rad top hose to the location in the picture on Myles site, and hence will need new fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 Thanks all, I'm a bit dubious though about installation in the 'main coolant loop'. I imagine the reduced water flow through there as compared with the top or bottom rad hoses (with the stat open) would lead to less than optimum heat transfer capabilities in the Laminova. I would imagine that the optimum position for the Laminova is actually between the submarine pipe and the block, although this will be the most difficult installation due to the scavenge pump clutter in that area (for a VX at least) ..anyone care to comment Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 185 for my LHD here Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, I'd argue that on a 'k' (don't know where the stat is etc. on a Vx), the heater/bypass is the best place all round: ...if you want rapid warm-up of oil, then the 'heater' loop is the best place (due to the previously-mentioned 'stat issues). No flow = no heat transfer. ...if you want to keep a cap on the OT then same result - unless you've got flow through the water section, the laminova isn't going to be doing a damned thing. Putting it in the bypass will ensure that the OT and WT are tied fairly closely - and then the stat and rad can cool the whole system as required. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macquarie Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, There is some technical information about the laminova here -http://www.opconab.com/www/files/laminova/pdf/Aftermarket.pdf This link here may work if I've got it right. The laminova water side consists of a number of small water chanels around the outer edge and a large round internal water by pass. If I read the graph on page 4 correctly, with the central bypass blocked, a water flow of 15 litres /min will give the same cooling effect as 110 litres /min with the bypass open. In the heater circuit you could block the internal bypass whereas I doubt you could do that in the main radiator circuit. I've not looked at what water temperature rise you would expect if you did this - does anybody have a ball park figure for the specific heat of engine oil? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, I fitted a Laminova over 12 moths ago now. Not had any issues with it. Keeps the oil temp to a max of 100 Deg C on my car, on a track day. No issues with coolant temps either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 Ian, I don't quite get the function of the 'by-pass'..do you know what they are trying to achieve with this?..they certainly can't cool the oil below the water temperature, so my guess, although it's not in their literature, is they're trying to achieve a stable 'optimum' oil temp. above the bulk water temp, perhaps 100 degs C.?...think I need to talk with Think Martin, where is it fitted, and which model/length? Does it have the by-pass? Paul Edited by - Paul McKenzie on 27 Nov 2005 19:49:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 "No issues with coolant temps either" not QUITE true Mav.. though extended running in 40C heat is different to 20 min trackday sessions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Neil, I'd be sure of your facts before you post such things. My heat issues were down to the grill mesh, not the Laminova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macquarie Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, Have a good look around here. As I understand it, the only part of the water side that is effective for heat transfer are the outer water channels. However in some situations, eg main radiator circuit, if all of the water was put through these then the pressure drop would be too great. Therefore the central chanel can be left open for use in high flow circuits or (partially or) fully blanked off in low flow water circuits - eg as a replacement for a heater or parrallel with one. Good luck talking with Think - At the point they told me that the water flows from the bottom to the top of the radiator I lost faith, mind you I was not talking to the usually recommended person (perhaps I should have!) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, I've a C43-90. Ordered direct from Think - Ask for Matthew. Mine is fitted in the top hose between the rad and water rail. I'll dig out a pic and post it on the web when my laptop comes back... Edited by - mav on 27 Nov 2005 20:14:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macquarie Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Paul, Just to make it clear, I'm in the same position as you - Thinking about installing a dry sump and laminova (albeit on a X/flow). My comments therefore reflect what I have researched and noted from other threads, not personal experience (yet). Mav, Where does your laminova feature in the oil circuit? Is it in the pressure side (either dry sumped or not) or in the scavenge return of a dry sump system? One of my main concerns with the laminova is the pressure drop through it with cold oil. With high scavenge flows the backpressure could be considerable, leading to very high oil pressure (I think this has been mentioned in relation to blowing oil seals in other threads) What have your experiences been? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I'm not dry sumped, I'm on an Apollo system, and the laminova sits before the apollo... I'm on a K series too, if that matters... Oil pressure does not seem affected cold (about 5.5 to 6 bar at start up). Oil pressur hot and 3K+ rpm is approx 3.75 to 4 bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 well Mav, the only difference in the cooling systems of our 2 cars was your laminova, and your upgraded Rad. I also have a mesh in my grill, and apollo. I'm not saying the laminova WAS the cause... just that you have had cooling issues, which at one point you were wondering if the laminova might have been adding to. As with most problems, I suspect it was a combination of a factors. (slightly too high oil level, too fine mesh in grill restricting air flow & maybe laminova putting too much heat into the cooling system for it to handle in hot and high conditions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted November 28, 2005 Leadership Team Share Posted November 28, 2005 My installation is a copy-cat of Mav's - I had a good look at it before plumbing in. Basically it's in the top hose - this gets warm early on, and the oil is routed through the Laminova before entering the Apollo. The drop in oil pressure is negligeable, however temperature, although I believe it is improved, is not perfect. On track I can still get the oil up to near 120 deg even though the water temp is rock solid (big steel race rad). The oil temp has usually dropped back to normal by the end of a cool-down lap though. Likewise the oil still takes a surprising amount of time to heat up - probably due to the cooling effect of the Apollo. My oil temp is measured at the Apollo - ie. after any effect of the Laminova and before entering teh engine. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom White Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I have almost the same setup as Stu ( I have an Ali road radiator) and Mav and am seeing exactly the same results as Stu describes. I was on the race track last summer with another Seven with identical spec (EU2 VVC) except without Laminova, the difference was that I was back to normal temp. (80 C) by the time I got to the paddock and he was up at 120 C and had to idle for five minutes before switch off. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Mmmm...not quite as clear cut as I'd hoped Stu/Martin and others with the laminova in the top hose - is the central water channel straight through or due you have a flow restrictor? If straight through do you think this might be the cause of less than optimal cooling, and slow warm-up of the oil? What are the results like for the ones with Laminovas in the 'heater' circuit? - are these straight through or flow restricted? Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Think mine is straight through Paul - check what is std from Think - that is what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now