Bighead Posted November 10, 2001 Share Posted November 10, 2001 Can anyone help me with some information regarding, upgrading my 1987ss d dion. Q1, is it still possible to buy the caterham top link to add to the roll bar pickup points, to complete the wishbone affect.? Q2. Can i fit the big brake kit as advertised by caterham , or the same idea from James Whiting.? Q3. Does anyone know whats involved in swaping my existing rear drum brakes for discs. ? lots of questions i know but you are a talented lot. thanx in advance X F ONE Edited by - X F ONE on 11 Nov 2001 13:36:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 11, 2001 Share Posted November 11, 2001 Q1 Don't really know but would expect so, Caterham Parts Dept seem to keep an inexhaustable supply of bits for the many different variations over the years. If not then someone like Midas could fabricate you either the adaptor or even a one off top wishbone for reasonable money that would fit your chassis. Q2 Can't see why not. Someone posted here or on the Se7ens list a month or so ago that Caterham said the big brake kit wouldn't fit older cars but the calipers and discs are the same so can't see why not. Also if James Whitings big brake kit will fit both old and new spec cars then Caterhams must too. Q3 If you have a Ford axle then buy a kit from one of the rally companies, cheapest use XR3i calipers but these have no cable handbrake, best bet is a kit using XR4i calipers (the ones Caterham use on the de dion cars). They come with brackets that weld to the end of the axle for the caliper, the discs fit over the end of the halfshaft (may need minor machining), the drum brake backplate is removed. Simple. If you have a marina axle then not sure. Change to a Ford axle then follow the above would seem to be the simplest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighead Posted November 11, 2001 Author Share Posted November 11, 2001 Chelspeed, thanks for the reply. Do you have any experience of Midas i,ve seen their ad . in low flying. Regarding my rear brakes the car is an early de dion, so maybe i should talk to some one like Redline . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Dart Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I used Midas to fabricate a roll bar back in the dark days when I had a pre lit W*******d the factory wern't at all interested in. They are a really nice bunch who turned out a first class job. They have plenty of Sevenesque experience as they build the chassis for dutch seven manufacturers Doonkervort. Inexpensive too. Give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 I used Midas last winter for some rose jointed wishbones. There engineering is excellent, the kit fitted first time, looks well engineered, has good quality powder coating etc etc. They were let down by their QA and communications, the guy in the workshop didn't listen to what I wanted and ended up making something different. If you write down what you want, tell then 3 times and then phone them every week to see if they've started yet then you'll be fine. OK, drum brakes on a de dion! Thats the first time I knew they'd ever done that, as soon as you said drums I assumed it was live axle. Should be much easier though. This will be vague as I've never seen a drum braked de dion. You'll may need different bearing carriers, probably different hubs, definetly a pair of discs and calipers and almost certainly different de dion ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7kjt Posted November 12, 2001 Share Posted November 12, 2001 Mine's an '86 de-dion, much the same 'interim' setup as yours, forged link front end, and drum brakes at the rear. Regarding the top link, I've just fitted the later 'adjustable' kit that provides a new top wishbone, replacing the forged link. Older conversion kits retained the forged link just adding the forward link and new arb where the old arb attached to the top-link. I think the kit used to come with a new lower wishbone to provide negative-camber. Haven't even got round to thinking about brakes yet. Kevin Thomas kevin.thomas@bigfoot.com www.7gallery.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighead Posted November 12, 2001 Author Share Posted November 12, 2001 can you tell me where the NEW adjustable bone has its front pickup (mounting point) and what differance it has made to your 7. xf one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7kjt Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 With the kit you get a small bracket that is bolted to the chassis rail behind the arb mounting. You get new arb mounts to hold the cotton-reel bungs that hold the arb itself. The bracket and the arb mounting bolt to each other through the chassis rail. You need to cut a small hole in the side skin through which the bracket protrudes. The front pickup of the new wishbone then bolts to this. Certainly has tightened up the front end, I don't do much (any) track work so probably haven't reached the point at which most benefit would be realised. Kevin Thomas kevin.thomas@bigfoot.com www.7gallery.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 The biggest improvement is the potential to adjust camber as well as toe as the upper wishbone has an ajustable ball-joint. However, as mine is only used for the road, I have adhered to the standard settings for the Live Axle chassis. I guess if you do a lot of track time or have the equipment to set up camber and toe, then this would be more useful. Cheers, Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashaughnessy Posted November 13, 2001 Share Posted November 13, 2001 I'm not entirely sure about a de-dion chassis, but certainly if you get the kit that retains the forged top link, you must also make sure you have negative camber lower wishbones fitted as well. This is mentioned in Tony Weale's book. You can identify the lower wishbone as being negative camber by the small letter N it has stamped on it somewhere in the vicinity of the trunnion. Don't know if this applies when you go the whole hog and replace the forged top link with an adjustable one. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 My understanding is that, if you go the whole hog, the lower wishbone is replaced with the de-dion variant with a ball joint at the bottom instead if the trunnion. Then any camber can be dialed in with the adjustable top ball-joint. The only difference between this and the full de-dion setup is that there is no room to move the lower wishbone fore/aft with washers to adjust castor angles. Cheers, Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7kjt Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 I fitted the adjustable top wishbone, replacing the forged top link. This allows me to adjust the camber. I have retained the existing lower wishbone and therefore the trunion link. The next step would be to change the lower wishbone, but I believe that would neccessitate changing the upright also. My setup is a perfectly acceptable and cost-effective first step, so long as you remember (unlike me wink.gif) to keep the trunion topped up with EP90. Kevin Thomas kevin.thomas@bigfoot.com www.7gallery.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 CJ7KIT I have fitted the rose jointed lower wishbones & retained the existing uprights by machining the thread off & down to the rose joint size then threading the end. However the upright is not a strong as a new one as it has the grease nipple bore running through it, - the new ones are solid. XF one I have also in the past upgraded from drums to discs on a de-dion. Caterham do an upgrade kit with all the bits, it was about £325 & from memory had: discs (same a sfronts?,calipers (sierra), pads, brake hoses, handbrake cables, de-dion ears and machined splined hubs to suit the discs. Overall the price wasnt bad considering, you may be able to source independantly most parts but not the de-dion ears and hubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 Carried out the same mod. Changed the top wishbone for an adjust one and fitted a stiffer arb. There is no need to change the bottom link as advised in TW's book. This was confirmed by various sources, including Caterham Tech people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 The reason big brakes may not fit early DeDion cars are the 13 inch wheels which can rub on the caliper. As a little taster there may be a radical alternative come the new year to front and rear suspension set ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asklepios Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 The only fly in the ointment in replacing only the top link/wishbone,is thst the taperin the top ball joint is different to that of the forged item.Thus while able to adjust the camber the breaking of the taper inserts a variable in the camber as the taper differences militate against a reliably positioned refit.Small irritant I know,but I wonder if the different surface areas of the fits,could be a stress riser ultimately.Anyone any experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 > The reason big brakes may not fit early DeDion cars are the 13 inch wheels > which can rub on the caliper OK I can accept this, some 13 inch rims may foul the caliper. But many do not. I run the big brakes and have run 3 different style of alloys, ford RS2000 alloys, minilites and SLR500, none have fouled the caliper. Perhaps I'm just lucky. So find someone who has big brakes and try your rims on his car. Not too hard and a lot nicer than sticking with triumph herald brakes. > As a little taster there may be a radical alternative come the new year to > front and rear suspension set ups What??? You can't leave it at that. Spill the beans. Don't leave us in suspenders!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 I agree with Asklepios Changing the forged top link for a wishbone setup dosent really work, as previously stated the ball joint taper and that in the stub axle arm are different, they dont "mate" correctly Edited by - Bafty Crastard on 15 Nov 2001 08:27:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Well it seems ok on my car. You had better tell Caterham technical then, as this is what they are now recommending as an upgrade, and this is the setup that is standard on the Classic live axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7kjt Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 As Casbar says this is a recommended setup, supplied as a kit by Caterham. I'm not 100% sure on this but the top wishbone supplied as part of the kit may be a different part number to a standard de-dion part, implying that the taper would be a suitable match. We certainly didn't expereince any issues when fitting the kit, nothing to suggest we were trying to put a square peg in a round hole, in fact when we had to break the taper again to (re)adjust the camber it was equally difficult(relatively) to break as the forged link had been. Regardless of anything that's said here, anyone in doubt when considering such an upgrade should speak to Caterham, James Whiting, Chris Wheeler etc. for professional advice. Kevin Thomas kevin.thomas@bigfoot.com www.7gallery.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Chelspeed Don't push me on this.I would love to tell you but then I would have to kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Len - is it ok if I push you then? What's going on, and more impotantly will I be able to fit it to my '92 car at low cost and to significant benefit? slather slather. Nigel Mills - 2.0 Zetec carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Unfortunate that - excuse the spelling but I have really flaky kyboard. I meant of course 'IMPORTANT', the last posting got uncomfortably close to 'impotent'! Nigel Mills - 2.0 Zetec carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Nigel, I am having a new Seven delivered in a couple of weeks and along with Gary May at Juno will be trying out a number of ideas that we have talked about since he engineered my son's race car. Will they work? We will have to wait and see, but certainly my son's 750 Roadsport was, to my mind, the best handling Seven I have ever been in. For instance, it set an outright lap record at Thruxton against all the Vauxhalls etc. and this was a 4 year old 1600 Supersport in need of a rebuild. Gary, in my opinion, is the best race engineer I have ever worked with and it will be interesting to see if our theories improve the breed. We may talk to LF when the car is finished to see if anyone is interested in an article. All being well and the bits working, we will probably make them available for all Sevens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 If Gary May is involved then I know what is on the cards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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