I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 My new car seems to run very, very cool is this quite usual on Duratecs? The temperature will slowly creep up to just over 80 and then, presumably as the 'stat opens, it gets a great slug of cold water from the rad and the temp immediately drops to 60 before repeating the procedure throughout the journey. Now this cycling obviously can't be good so I am going to try a couple of things to alleviate it before using the car again. It has what amounts to a triple pass aluminium radiator and I am guessing this is just too efficient when the ambient temperatures are still relatively low. Due to my work, I have access to lightweight (200g) aluminium, purpose made multiblade damper units so I am intending to mount one of these in front of the rad to cover the lower half. The idea being that I can open or shut this damper anywhere between 0% - 100%. The damper should be easily adjustable using a long fine screwdriver through the inlet mesh of the nosecone and is a bit more high-tech and more easily adjustable than the traditional piece of cardboard. Can anybody see any problems with this 🤔 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Yeah - what's wrong with cardboard 😳 Our 'Out of a Box' Designs are very very hi-tech, despite appearances! (sorry - non-helpfull pointless reply!!) 😬 Big update! here 80,000miles in 3 years plus Edited by - angus&tessa on 16 May 2005 12:01:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 The electrically assisted thermostat can be forced to open quite a lot below 70°C if you apply a constant 12v to it. I was told you can even force it to open at 30°C if you have a low cooant flow. Normally in the mondeo its set to open at its natural wax set point of 98°C. The ECU then makes it open early by applying a voltage to the heater as necesary althoght I think this is no lower than 78°C. Balancing the duty cycle to the heater to maintain 78°C with very efficient cooling system will be difficult. I'd suggest sourcing a non heated type thermostat from either a Mazda dealer (or Ammo). BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevSull Too Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 You're not driving it properly you poof!!! 😬You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Bob, I have already got the non heated type in a Raceline water rail. I have used these water rails on my previous car with a Zetec and the only problem with them is that the 'stat is remote from the head by about 200 mm. What happens is that the temperature within the head is always far hotter than the thermostat is sensing so the only way round this is to drill a small hole in the 'stat baseplate to allow a small volume of water past the bulb to ensure it senses somewhere near the correct temp and opens sooner rather than later. This works well on the Zetec and should, in theory, do the same on the Duratec which I guess it is doing as the thermostat is an 82 deg jobbie and sure enough the gauge is showing just over 80 when the temperature then suddenly drops. My guess is that the rad is just too efficient for low ambient temperatures so I need to address that by artificially decreasing its efficiency 🤔 Kev, you are right as always 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Brent, I have precisely the same phenomenon on my Zetec. The plumbing is Anglia 7 and James Whiting 'endorsed' and the thermostat is a 92-95. Is my head running hotter than indicated? Do you think I need to drill a hole in my thermostat too (3mm?)? MikeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Does it have the Raceline water rail 🤔 IIRC, James Whiting used the standard Ford takeoff which retained the thermostat in the head and thus it should be sensing the actual head temp. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Mine uses the standard Zetec thermostat housing on the back of the cylinder head. It is piped up with ali tubes etc. made up to suit. So hopefully this is good news! But the temperature cycling still bothers me. MikeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Have you tried blanking off part of the rad to see if it will maintain a more even temperature? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Just getting back to my problem, I should add that when the engine is idling on the drive, ie no cooling air passing over the rad fins, it gets up to temperature quite normally, the thermostat opens, the rad gets hot, the engine cools a bit, then gets hotter and eventually, the fan will cut in. It will subsequently cycle quite normally between upper and lower 80's as the fan cuts in and out so it is this which leads me to suspect the radiator is over cooling it during driving. Would this be a reasonable assumption? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Sorry for the hi-jack. BTTT. MikeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Brent On my first Duratec car I reverted back to the small radiator because the temperature was so low, that was a 2.0ltr engine. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Thanks Mick, I was kind of suspecting that was the case. I will try my damper mod first as it is cheap, ie won't cost me a penny , and see if I can stabilise it that way. I don't particularly want to fork out for another rad just yet and it is quite comforting to know there is additional cooling capacity available should it be needed on a hot track day or something. MikeK, no prob with the hijack, it is a sort of similar problem so if that can be solved at the same time then great. So back to my last question to you, have you tried blanking off part of the radiator? If you have and that solves the cycling problem then, assuming my mod works, you are more than welcome to one of my damper units to try. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 As Mic says they run cool 😬 not like other engines Everyone has said the same so don't worry. On a really hot day and a bit of track work it will warm a little bit more The joys of Duratec 😬 PS I fitted an oil temp sensor and the oil temp seems perfect, before someone comes along saying the engine should warm up!!! Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Edited by - richard in france on 16 May 2005 20:17:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Well, not everyones runs cool, saw 105'c on my last trackday but then it might be a bit warmer here than blighty Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 So that's a concensus then. Richard, any news on your carbon fibre silencer heat shield yet 🤔 I reckon that is all my car now needs to finish it off 😬 .......................the final touch of cool. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Brent- I haven't tried blanking off the rad yet (I thought the problem might be due to air locks or a dodgey thermostat, and this is where I've been focussing my efforts). After just fitting a new 92 deg thermostat the temp swing seems less (perhaps not suprising as the replaced thermostat was an 83deg part) but its too early to draw firm conclusions. I'll see how it performs at Dunsfold this w/e and take it from there- so I might be getting back to you re the blind 😬 Thanks, MikeK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Brent The on site works finish this week 😬 so can get back to finishing all the bits I have half started and a lot more. Being chased on this part so will do the testing as soon as I am able to get my car out on the road again 😬 (very soon 😬 I hope) Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 Let me know if you want a comparative test carried out on a 2.3 😬 Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV NII OAW R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Richard, Your air filter's on it's way to you (I posted it this morning) cheers R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Sorry for barking up the wrong tree... The duratec has a very high coolant flow compared to a zetec, I wonder if its pushing the stat open early. Ill have a think about it some more, I'll out of the country just now but couldn't resist a quick peek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Regarding the high coolant flow I have asked my CNC man to quote for pulleys to slow the water pump down. I suppose these engines only go to around 6,000 rpm on the road and probably cruise at less than this. If you consider that the 2.3 is proabably being used in anger with a 7,500 rpm limit the pump will be revving in excess of 9,000 rpm. The 2 litre steel crank engine I am planning will rev to 9,000 rpm which means that the water pump will turn in excess of 11,000 rpm. Methinks this is too fast and that there may be a risk of cavitation. Whaddayathink Bob? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 IMO there is a definate need to put some restriction on the bleed off flow from the back of the head to the header tank. Unrestricted I noticed that a massive amount of coolant at pressure was being forced back through the header tank. I put a 1mm holed plug into the line as it exits the matrix casting on the back of the head. The engine runs with the fixed thermostat and temperature remained constant after warm up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain A Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hi My Raceline 2l Duratech was running very cool during the winter (about 60c). I was advised by Peter McEwan to blank off part of the (V large ally) radiator. I ended up blanking about 1/3 of the rad and the engine ran in the 80 - 90c range fine all winter. Now that air temps are up above 10c during the day I have to remove the blind or the fan runs a fair bit. As mentioned, my thermostat has a 4 or 5 mm hole in it to allow some water circulation when cold. On track I found that oil temps get a bit high... I reached 115c on track at Knockhill while chasing a race perepared GT3... I have now fitted a 13 row cooler and oil temp has not exceeded 95c so far on track. One of the Duratectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Ian, I'm interested in your views on the oil cooler. Raceline are going to fit my dry sump in a couple of weeks so I mentioned my on track oil temps to Peter and suggested we fit an oil cooler at the same time, but he reckoned I wouldn't need one Is your engine dry sumped 🤔 cheers R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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