DanB Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Experts? Self-professed or real ones? Low-perforation release film and a decent mould works for me. And SP Systems seem pretty convinced. But then they don't make magic fairy dust resin systems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I'm getting very confused as to the metrics that are being claimed to be superior here. As we are talking about something that is easily measurable any chance of some hard numbers on any parameters that are an improvement. 'lighter' BTW is not a metric. There are however many metrics that could be used to test if your products have a lower weight for a particular function. Likewise surface finish can be measured by any number of labs if you can come up with the parameters for your product. This way we can have a nice table that shows the parametrics of all the products. The other confusion I have is why motorsports customers put cosmetic finish as a critical priority. Barry boys yes, but for race cars I could only see it as an issue if you are trying to mould riblets into the bodywork for some sort of boundary layer control, and I doubt many people are that advanced outside, say Maranello. I must be behind the times. Last time I looked CF was used primarily for high stiffness/unit mass and very good impact absorbtion (if laid-up correctly in both cases). must catch up with everyone else Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandyman Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Bill, please keep reason and common sense out of the CF threads. Cheers, Marin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 CF thread Surely it's about animal cruelty now. . . . i.e. kicking a DITP when it's down 😬 Accumulating bits for the Super-Busa. . . Anyone got a spare 3.14 diff??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Bill: You'd be surprised about the cosmetic bit. A few years ago, Lola found that they could sell more Indy-Cars (to professional teams who should have known better) if they made their carbon bits look blacker. The comissioned a special resin from Cytec called 919-LB which was the very common 919 resin with a black pigment added - hence the suffix - Lola Black. The resin is still used a lot in motorsport because, not having aerospace type approval, it is a bit cheaper than standard 919. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 *gong* Coffee-mug ready, croissant in reach Handbags, Ladies ! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Bill, you've been told before on this forum for talking like an engineer. If you continue to adopt this approach then logic and reason will prevail over emotive slanging matches, and that would never do. I and many other users of this forum will not tolerate such rationality with regard to composite manufacture or any other subject and I must ask you to stop it immediately. Please confine all future communications to vague, unsubstantiated claims and slagging off of competitors, in the original spirit of TechTalk. Regards Battered (serious mode) Paul, interesting re Lola. Even engineers buy shiny stuff! (/serious mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan T Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Scuffnut You calling me a twig 🤔 I'll see you outside 😬 BTW Where are you? Cheers Jan (aka the Twig) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Shot Sales Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 ALL EFA's POSTS DELETED. I would like to think he has taken my advice, but I doubt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Ok, so you comment on your new business on a public forum and then start a verbal battle with your competitors, but after they start to get the upper hand you delete all your posts? Everyone knows Arnie likes to be in the spot light, but I think its time to step into the shadows if you want people on this forum (and customers) to start to respect you again... LeMans 2004 pics here Seven related chat here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Keeping stumm might be a good idea Ly low and let it blow over. This thread has become damaging for one party. Support the 7 Society...... Ehhh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Rumour has it that EFA has gone into hiding from the American Secret Service after divulging details of his top secret new resin system to this forum. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieclark Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 maybe I should market a new half door - bi-axial lignin cellulose composite (with additional glue), available in grades from 'marine' to 'balsa' with optional varnish finish (for those who are concerned about looks & longevity) - half door without extra elbow space will be simplest to manufacture and offer least air resistance. Intend to manufacture a 'marine' grade version as a 'washboard'/door for my boat this afternoon to familiarise myself with the production method. I note that caterham have used a similar composite in the past to add stiffness to their bench seats. Edited by - robbieclark on 29 Sep 2004 10:32:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Watch it robbie - sailing pretty close to the wind as far as our proposed range of Out-of-a-Box Design products - soon to be launched. 😬 HUGE UPDATE NOW WITH VIDEO here 70,000miles in 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Don't Caterham still use the "bi-axial lignin cellulose composite" (aka plywood) material for part of the boot floor? IIRC I was told (by the then boss of Caterham Midlands) that this was an essential part for crash protection. Can't quite see how as the plank was only held in by 3 self tappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Sorry, I'm an engineer. Not my fault, honest. Paul: interesting on the Bling front. Whatever happened to form following function? Perhaps some manufacturers of CF parts should advertise the non-structural bits as 'parts for tarts'. Certainly V7SLR falls into that category :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Not entirely unfair comment, although unfair to drag me into this debate which I've managed to keep out of until page 8 (apart from an early show of appreciation for the sidescreens). I like CF. It's more resilient than paint or fibreglass. I am only interested in it being strong enough to hold its shape in 140mph winds (don't need anything structural) and looking like new after a wash. Light is nice, but given the small amount of it used in the Se7en construction, it's bordering on irrelevant given that the driver is a fat knacker. I like that it is a talking point to show relatives how light CF can be rather than a boast about how much it has lightened the car. And I also like that I have benefitted from some rather good deals in my purchases of it from one manufacturer only (so far). Now, if you can make CF wheel rims to suit Barnby centres (or better looking ones), seats that fit better around the back (Tillet uprights are too narrow for me), headlamps (I'm saving for a pair of Henk's), scuttle (talking to someone about that), inner panels (saving for a set of RiF's), bonnet (anyone solved the louvre issue yet?) and basically anything else that looks nice, is durable and priced so that I might one day be able to afford it, I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Not an engineer so almost certainly wrong but wouldn't a visual flaw in the CF mean that there could be a more sinister structural weakness at this point? Obviously totally irrelevant on a Caterham CF wing but relevant on an F1 wishbone or tub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris G Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 There are many sorts of visual flaws and most of them are non-structural. Given that all the parts we're talking about here are non-structural anyway I can't see why you'd care anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted September 29, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted September 29, 2004 Don't give up guys, this has been the best thread for months 😬 😬 😬 Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Not since the "JPE" car for sale some months back Lovly jubly R300 NUT'errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I have just received a sample from MOG Composites - thanks Joachim. First impression is that it is a well made composite piece. I will write a fuller assesment when I get a little time. I think that there is little point in running the mechanical tests because they will have little meaning on their own. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Tony Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 So what are you assessing? You are qualified to assess because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Have you even read any of the thread?!?! LeMans 2004 pics here Seven related chat here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Jesus, the guy is qualified because he's a sodding engineer (or he's using someone who is) at a certain car manufacturer based at Maranello, Italy. Now I haven't been to this place but I believe they have some pretty advanced materials testing gear there and lots of people who know a great deal about how to use it and assess the results. Of course it is possible that I may be able to get a better measure in my workshop using a vice and hammer, but I'd say that was unlikely. All things considered. Those who wish to disregard this test are of course free to do so. They can also have a bash in my garage if they think that's a better bet. *mad*FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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