k80rum Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 😬 😬 😬 Well if I hadn't already been won over by the fab engineering, the handling would have sealed it. I'm a convert!! Congratulations to Len and Gary on what Caterham should perhaps have adopted as the oem suspension system. Initially upon lowering the car to the floor, I had too little ground clearance for road use, Gary mentioned that favourable results had been obtained by giving the front springs more preload anyway, so I wound the platforms up by about half an inch to the end of the damper. The car was still sitting low - my usual 75mm under the sump was closer to 60mm. I decided to turn my attention to the pushrods, which were wound in to their shortest setting. It's now so easy to fine tune ride height with these - no more jacking the car up, simply twist the pushrods with both hands, move the car about to settle the suspension and check the height! Once I was satisfied that I had a decent height (I settled on 70mm because i now had the benefit of a rising-rate system) I locked the position with the pushrod nuts. The dampers are set to the '4 clicks from full soft' setting. I did a very quick check of the camber at 1.8 deg, checked the tyre pressures and left the front toe as was, so all my preliminary settings are very, very rough. I wanted to get the car out and do a shakedown test to bed everything in and confirm that the cooling system was behaving itself after the necessary bleed. It would be untruthful to say i explored how things have improved at or towards the limit - i went for an hours blat with the missus riding shotgun, gradually building confidence that nothing unexpected was going to happen. My initial impression was that front toe was closer to zero than before but once i adjusted to the different feel that gave I concentrated on the handling. The car is so obviously damping at the front now. It really was an eye opener, just how well the car coped with bumps and undulations. More bumps are fedback through the steering but I am putting this down to the fact that i'm running only one washer's worth of castor at the front at the moment (would that make sense?) The front suspension feels so much more like it's working in harmony with the car now - beforehand the front felt soft and mushy (with my std road springs) or stiff (with my race springs/thinner front ARB combo, which i switched too for less sump-grounding). Now the front of the car is transformed . There is also minimal (less) roll through corners - a trait that seems at odds with the fact that there is no longer a front ARB of any sort. The cornering ability is also quantifiably improved. I'm still running my CR500s for the road at the moment but the Freestyle pushrod system made the car feel like it had the ACB10s on - grip was improved with the result that the car could be flicked through familiar corners faster than before. As I say although I "pushed-on", I didn't try to explore where the new limit was or how the car reacted at it (for 2 reasons - one i wanted to spanner-check and retorque first, and secondly it'll be a fruitless exercise until i get the car set up more accurately). It seems amazing to think that there's more to come once it's fettled properly and the car hardly handled like a barge before, but the improvement is exactly what i'd hoped for. I'm definitely going to look at completing the upgrade by going super-wide track and SV rear over the winter now and I would urge anyone considering the system to go for it - you'll be in for a treat. Darren E K80RUM Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 9 Jun 2004 11:02:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrolhead Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Very interesting and imformative write up Super Wide and SV Rear Obviously the front top and bot wishbones are longer but how is it done on the rear ie SV Now with SL No 148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Fit an SV dedion and drive shafts. Oh and wider wings or a spacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Thanks Petrolhead, Yes, so far as I understand it, the superwide front consists of longer replacement wishbones, trackrods and pushrods. Whereas the rear 'package' consists of the adjustable rear shocks, SV de-dion tube and SV driveshafts. I've yet to find out about the rear wings - presumably switching to an SV de-dion size rear track will leave the wheels sticking out of the side 'Carlos Fandango' style, in which case reaplcement rear wings would be required. Darren E K80RUM Superlight R #54 Edited to say - beaten by Greg Edited by - k80rum on 9 Jun 2004 11:07:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I wonder how they have done the mountings for fitting the SV tube in a standard chassis. The A frame is simple, but the on tube mounts for both the radius arms and the shocks will be in a wider position. Anyone know ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrolhead Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I would have thought you would use the wide arches from ... cant remember, german web site Now with SL No 148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Barrow Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Pleased to hear the results have worked for you looking forward to your opinion on mine 😬 Dave B Superlight No.175 Freestyle superwide Pushrod SV rear and aerofoil mmmmmmmm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I am a longway off completing my 7 but i already have an SV tube in my standard chassis to complement my supawide freestyle bones but i couldnt fit the pushrods because my frame is an early de dion . Reading posts like this one certainly keep me motivated 😬 must go and get on with it Marc. SOON TO BE FATTRACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 The shocks just splay outwards a bit to meet the tube. The radius arms are bespoke, with the end bushes welded on at a jaunty angle, so they slope away from the car body to meet the DD tube mounting point at the normal SV location. Watt's linkage is not available with this setup. Sahf London; every 1st Wednesday from 19:30 at The Duck just around the corner from Clapham Junction station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 In your considered opinion Peter, is moving away from the Watts linkage a worthwhile move, or are you an advocate of it (wasn't it introduced to control 'rear-wheel steering' movement?). I'd heard that Gary had a bias toward the radius-arm setup although i haven't heard the reason. I suppose there must be a line of thought that says it's no worse than the Watts setup, because whichever method Freestyle adopted had to involve fabrication to allow for installation Always curious to learn more.. 😬 Darren E K80RUM Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 10 Jun 2004 08:51:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Thanks for the nice comments Darren and Dave. The super wide track does, as mentioned have our own Radius arms and yes Gary is biased towards radius arms and not the watts linkage. He is coming over and will ask him to explain as he has told me many times but when he gets to squish angles I get lost. Only to say Brodie has radius arms on his sprint car and I think both Peter Ratcliff and Martin Stewart first and second in 750’s all have Garys rear set up, so I suppose when people start going quicker than them it might need a rethink. Peter incidentally, last year came Sixth overall in a 750 car at spa against the R400's complete with lights, small windscreen,- smaller rear wheels and radius arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey kong Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I have to say even on 'skinny' pushrods(ie ,not superwide) the handling is very sweet 😬,you all know you want it ,why don't you lot ask about gary and len's new finance terms 😬........................................ Always driving with a can of WHUP-ASS in the car!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Didn't I see some pictures of the new SVR with IRS? That modification - when released - could possibly be adaptable to our standard size Cats and go well with the ultra wide pushrod front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 *thumbup* *thumbup* *thumbup* I am very happy with my pushrod set up, especially on uneven road surfaces. Just as well as there was plenty of those on the "D" roads I used to go to Le Mans 😬 😬 😬 Second person to fit pushrods and would recommend as an upgrade anytime Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy65 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 What would be the effect of a standard rear track and supertrack front pushrod set up. Not sure about how much wider supertrack is, do you think it would look stupid and/or is it legal? Apologies for the semi hyjack Darren but I'm at home and bored waiting for the washing machine to be delivered so I can't go blatting so the upgrade-dreaming has started. Thanks for the feedback on the pushrod system aswell regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 no worries Andrew 😬 . I had a chat with Len about going superwidetrack at the front and doing the back later. He advised against it, so I went with the advice. I was offered the chance to upgrade the whole package to superwide track front and sv-wide rear for just the price difference between the two, (£1k) which I reckon sounds a great deal and is a fantastic piece of customer service - I simply return the front wishbones and hand over a grand, getting in return the superwidetrack front parts and the SV-rear. Hope the washing machine comes soon and you can spend the rest of the day blatting - it's always the same with flipping delivery services - you take the day off and can do nothing that involves being outside sprinting distance of the front door. Then they amble along at 5pm or worse still not at all! (grrr!) Darren E K80RUM Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 14 Jun 2004 12:52:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy65 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 That does sound like an attractive deal, hmmm three washing machines and I could do it Wonder why len advised against it.........it'd keep the stones off the bodywork a little and one could run a nice soft front. (don't let this last comment give the impression I know anything......I don't) Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Hi Andy we can't recomend it as we have never tried it, But I did say to Darren that we are building a new superwide track car more aero bits and with a duratec. So if we fit the pushrod first with some standard rear stuff it would be silly not to go to track and test it then swop over in the lunch break just to see what happens.Oh I do LOVE this job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Burrell Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 For anyone interested, Len is coming to our meeting on Tuesday 6th July, to talk to us about his kit and to answer any questions we may have. If you're not too far from Hampshire (I'm assured the 6th will be fine, sunny, good blatting weather!) you'd be welcome to join us. (Details & map on web site) Mick Burrell AO West Hants West Hants Web Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross_H Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Len, could you build a pushrod system with different dampers eg. 2 way nitrons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy65 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Thanks Len, I'd be very interested in knowing your results. F1 cars seem to have wider front tracks hmmm. I wonder if that's through regs or choice. Ps if you need a test driver, let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross_H Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 i'm sure i recall reading somewhere that front engine cars should have wider front track than rear... feels right but i'm sure len / gary or peter c. could confirm with reasons, thus saving me hours of ultimately futile web crawling and / or algebra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Ross_H Grahm Ford has a pushrod car with Nitron two way adjustable dampers on, I think he's the only one to do this so far. He had to "modify" one of the chassis tubes at the front to get the springs to fit as they are wider than the ones the Avo dampers run although I think Freestyle may now have a fix for this. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Dave and Darren, are you going to bring your cars along to the MADS meet next wednesday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Sorry Mav - I've got an end-of-project meal & p**s-up ☹️ Hopefully Dave can make it though - his car will have everything mine has and all the other goodies! Darren E K80RUM Superlight R #54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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