New owner - K series, questions on low coolant temperature, first service and high tick over

[Miker7]

I picked up a 2002 K Series Caterham this week - its the culmination of a 25 year dream so i'm chuffed to bits. 

On the test drive prior to buying earlier in the week the coolant temperature seemed to be 'reasonable' - i can't recall exactly but it wasn't hot which was my 'thing to check' and it was driven to me so turned up having had a 15 mile run on a warm day.

Today I left the car idling on the drive for a while and the fan kicked in so i was happy it worked whilst checking other things. Added some oil as it was only half way on the dip stick when the engine was warm and running. Had lunch then went out for a drive. On the drive the temperature hovered around the 40 degree mark, occasionally rising a little above. Kept the revs around 3k and below mostly (occasional first gear may have gone to 4k) but was going 40 to 60mph. As i was worried about the temperature I headed home after a few miles.

Checked the radiator had water in the top (opened the bleed screw a little and water weeped out). Water level in the header tank is between max and min.

Tried again an hour later on a slower run, similar issue, maybe slightly warmer. Got home, stopped the engine and went to hunt for the bluetooth obd2 reader. Plugged it in and it claimed the temperature was 65 degrees whilst the gauge had the needle on the 0 of 40 - so close to half way between 40 mark and the next mark which i assume is approx 60.

Whats the collective thought? Airlock at the top of the engine? or ?

Also, I want to give the car a 24k service as its nearly there and I want peace of mind everything is ok as i'm not sure when it had its last service. I think I'm reasonable with a spanner. Does anyone do 'service packs' (i'd check redline but the website seems down). Are their any consolidated lists of part numbers for a k Series so i'm not paying Caterham prices for service items (i've been using search but its slow going working through 20 years of posts on here)?

Finally, whats the normal tickover of a 1.6 k Series with a supersport engine conversion? Mine is ticking over at 1500, which seems high when you're used to tintops.

Cheers from a very happy Mike despite the cold engine.

[Jonathan Kay]

Welcome

There are several recent reports of K engined Sevens being overcooled. And some people blank part of the radiator in winter. 
 

With it stationary on the drive what’s the temperature when the fan cuts in and what does it drop to?

Jonathan

PS: Do you need any technical documentation?

Edited January 28 by Jonathan Kay

[Jonathan Kay]

Servicing

Have you found the suggested schedules on this website?

Don’t worry about the Redline website  Email saying what you need… and you don’t even need part numbers, just details of your Seven  

Jonathan

Edited January 28 by Jonathan Kay

[Miker7]

I've already downloaded the servicing schedule and converted it into a spreadsheet to track each future service. I'll happily take any relevant technical documentation. I've got the pdf serving guide on here which i've skimmed through. 

I didn't pay a lot of attention to fan temperature, I think it was lower than i'd expected at "a bit" over 80.  I can't tell you how much over now and wish in hindsight i'd taken a photo for reference. However now you've asked its making me wonder. Weather today was around 10/11 degrees so i'd assume I'd not need to blank any part of a radiator.

[Jonathan Kay]

2 minutes ago, Miker7 said:

I'll happily take any relevant technical documentation. I've got the pdf serving guide on here which i've skimmed through. 

Please send me a Private Message with your email address. 

Jonathan

 

[Toby S]

Hi Miker7

Welcome to the fun of Sevening

Given it seems to get up to temperature on the drive, I think you may find that to avoid possible overheating, the thermostat may have been removed and therefor you have full on cooling flow all the time. I know a lot of people which track their k series do this.

I know that was the case with my 1400 Supersport when I first got it, and when driving in Autumn/Winter on colder day  I found I couldn't get up to normal running temperature (circa 80-85 degrees) - in winter it would show 60-70 before I refitted a thermostat.

No doubt there are pros and cons of having thermostats (especially if you're worried on overheating) , but I'm just as uncomfortable with revving the arse off (and you have to with a 1400) a too cooler engine as fear of the thing boiling.  You can get various thermostats from Rimmer Bros which open from 76 to circa 82 degrees - I've got the standard 82 degree fitted and it seems to work fine, as long as you bleed the system properly - I've never come close to boiling. 

The only way to find out is to take the thermostat housing off and look to see if there is a thermostat in there - of course there may be one in there and its jammed open.

Good luck

[oilyhands]

If the idle is soaring the I would reset the TPS (ignition on, 5 full depressions of the throttle, then start). I would also check the wiring to the throttle position sensor which is on the throttle body facing towards the engine, this can some times fail with internal fractures in the wire.

Oily

[Miker7]

Thanks for the suggestions, I've got a 'full' service to do over the next two weekends so when i do the cambelt I'll also look for a thermostat. If i'm putting a thermostat back in should I be doing the usual drill a 3mm hole to get some water / air passing or is that something you don't do on modern engines (i'm used to xflows). I'm also looking to add an ebay bleed tee next to the heater to aid air air lock removal unless someone says its a bad idea.

Still trying to decide if i fit foam or not. Is their anyway to figure out if their is foam already in the sump without removing it? I've got a 5mm borescope but i can't currently figure out how that could practically help me. Which reminds me, can you reuse sump gaskets? Back with the old crossflow if you removed the sump you replaced the gasket, i've got the impression thats not necessary with the K series & at 50 to 60 quid a gasket I'm quite happy about that. Are redline/caterham the only places that sell the gasket?

ODB2 did show TPS going from 5% to 90%, i did wonder about that but didn't think any more of it (i develop Speeduino code and in test i often set up deadzones - must remember this isn't a test car). Will do a reset.

Cheers, Mike

[Jonathan Kay]

5 minutes ago, Miker7 said:

Thanks for the suggestions, I've got a 'full' service to do over the next two weekends so when i do the cambelt I'll also look for a thermostat. If i'm putting a thermostat back in should I be doing the usual drill a 3mm hole to get some water / air passing or is that something you don't do on modern engines (i'm used to xflows). I'm also looking to add an ebay bleed tee next to the heater to aid air air lock removal unless someone says its a bad idea.

Strategies vary. Many cooling problems on Ks can be solved by jacking, bleeding and massaging. And if those fail then it's *worth drilling the hole. But if the thermostat's coming out anyway then I don't think that there's a reported downside of drilling the hole anyway.

Definitely add a bleeding T piece at the highest point in the heater hose.

Jonathan

* NB Added lightness! : - )

[Jonathan Kay]

9 minutes ago, Miker7 said:

...
Still trying to decide if i fit foam or not. Is there anyway to figure out if there is foam already in the sump without removing it? I've got a 5mm borescope but i can't currently figure out how that could practically help me. Which reminds me, can you reuse sump gaskets?
...

I lunched an engine by not removing the foam, and relying on regular inspection (by eye). I'd hate it to happen to anyone else.

Have you got the notes on adding *holes in the gasket?

Jonathan

* As in previous post!  : - )

[Jonathan Kay]

 

[BigCol]

7 hours ago, Miker7 said:

Are redline/caterham the only places that sell the gasket?

Always good to patronise/encourage Minty at Redline - he’s a fabulous resource.  That said, other than Caterham, Burton Power may be able to provide a gasket.

[PaulRainsford]

9 hours ago, oilyhands said:

If the idle is soaring the I would reset the TPS (ignition on, 5 full depressions of the throttle, then start). I would also check the wiring to the throttle position sensor which is on the throttle body facing towards the engine, this can some times fail with internal fractures in the wire.

Oily

Last year my vhpd k series was idling high and i found a number of fractures in the wires going in to the idle control valve. I took apart the connector and rewired it properly and the idle returned to normal 🙂

[paul richards]

Remove the sump. Ditch the foam. Put holes in gasket and reuse it. 

[oilyhands]

The gasket holes were originally suggested / implemented by yours truly, there is a picture in the archives somewhere showing where these are drilled, adjacent to the pickup0. If you have any difficulty sourcing sump gaskets, I stock them with the drain holes already made.