ScottR400D Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 #24 It does look like a bodge but if the shim is too big it's not going to work well. The washers are certainly thinner than the shim and, at the end of the day, DPR do generally know what they're doing.Is there anyone out there with the shim(s) installed and finds it works well?Perhaps what we're saying is that a shim of different dimensions is needed, possibly some of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel B Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 #23 Here are a few photos of my car. There are three washers underneath the upper mounting bolt. It's in an awkward spot to measure, but I'd estimate they have a combined width of about 5 to 6mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel B Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 & the pedal positioning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTW Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 Thanks for the pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTW Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 I'm pleased to report removing the shim and using washers seems to have done the trick!it'd night and day, lovely firm pedal now, much more feel than the stock one and slightly less travel, very happy!as you can see the angle is a lot less than with the shim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted June 8, 2022 Leadership Team Share Posted June 8, 2022 Using washers to angle two plain surfaces relative to one another is just poor engineering practice - whether it 'works' or not. It's a bodge job. A pair of shims is the proper way to do it and works perfectly when correctly installed; the angle of inclination is not 'too big' as speculated above but is, in fact, designed to ensure that the m/c piston is correctly aligned with the bore and not off-centred. Just do it properly, using a single pair of shims.James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTW Posted June 8, 2022 Author Share Posted June 8, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 #31I think we all get that but it seems there are reasons why the CC shims don't work. Can you explain how they could be fitted incorrectly? Or why you think MTW's is fine with washers but not with the shim? Would 2 shims have been different again? Did you fit yours or have them fitted? I would quite like to do this but I'm loathe to pay £60+ for two simple wedges of aluminium. As said, more than the pedal itself! Anyone able to measure the angle of the taper on the shim by the way and how much different is that to a pair of washers? Afterthought: It's not like the cars don't already have a few 'bodge jobs' about them is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted June 8, 2022 Leadership Team Share Posted June 8, 2022 "it seems there are reasons why the CC shims don't work"They do. It's wrong to say they don't. Just fit them (as they are intended to be) in pairs. That way you will have a secure mounting and the correct pedal/pivot/piston geometry to ensure that the piston strokes properly inline with the bore. (This has nothing to do with the effective ratio which is set by the pedal geometry)."Did you fit yours or have them fitted?"I've fitted these myself (in pairs, of course) to two cars I have owned and advised a friend with fitment to a 620. It's straightforward."Anyone able to measure the angle of the taper on the shim by the way and how much different is that to a pair of washers?"I think you're missing the point - and in my view it's a fairly important one!James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Agree with James the washer bodge is desperate in term of good practice - would not find a place on my brakes.Its possible the shims are designed to work correctly and give direct inline operation with the pedal in a particular hole in the 3 options for pedal position, these will affect the length of the push rod and therefore the angles of actuation involed in operation.You can work out the shim angle required using a short straight edge or taught line thro the mounting hole, held in the centre of the pedalo hole and centre of the pedal box hole and measured against the pedal box mounting face, ideally when correctly adjusted you want the pedal perpendicular to the push rod and the push rod on the same centre line as the bore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Fair enough but I'm not the one missing the point, though, to be fair you don't know why I asked the question so you don't know what the point was! . So, anyone know what the respective angles are? Another question. If these have to be fitted in pairs (which is clear) why don't CC sell them in pairs? There's no indication on the parts site that you need two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Well I had to laugh! Looking for info on this issue I found the following in a thread on here 6 years ago:"For anyone that cares... I spoke to the parts dept at Dartford this morning. It turns out that there is both a metric and imperial pedal, both which can be used on my chassis however, the imperial pedal requires bending to make it fit correctly. They also mentioned that the spacers should be used with both the metric and imperial pedal, although they are in the process of designing one that doesn't require the spacers."I think I'll wait for the new pedal, can't be long now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTW Posted June 9, 2022 Author Share Posted June 9, 2022 it actually makes sense that the shim probably only works at one pedal position, my pedal position is the furthest away from me, but if you used the position closest to the driver it would solve the issue I would imagine. When I can muster the strength to faf around with the pedals again I might try and fit both shims, use the closest pedal mount and adjust the pedals to sit roughly in the same area, although I am a bit wary as I'm 6'2 so I only just fit in my car with the pedals all the way forward and seat all the way back.It seems to me there is a lot of little things involved with getting this pedal right. All this could be avoided if Caterham provided some basic instructions wouldn't it! But I suppose that's too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 9, 2022 Member Share Posted June 9, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David JLM Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 On 08/06/2022 at 21:17, Shortshift said: "it seems there are reasons why the CC shims don't work" They do. It's wrong to say they don't. Just fit them (as they are intended to be) in pairs. That way you will have a secure mounting and the correct pedal/pivot/piston geometry to ensure that the piston strokes properly inline with the bore. (This has nothing to do with the effective ratio which is set by the pedal geometry). "Did you fit yours or have them fitted?" I've fitted these myself (in pairs, of course) to two cars I have owned and advised a friend with fitment to a 620. It's straightforward. "Anyone able to measure the angle of the taper on the shim by the way and how much different is that to a pair of washers?" I think you're missing the point - and in my view it's a fairly important one! James Hi James I was advised by CC to buy two shims, and I have - any chance of some pics of your installation, and/or advice on doing the job? Or anyone else for that matter! I'm sure it should be simple, but... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted April 14 Leadership Team Share Posted April 14 Sorry David - nothing to hand. See the photograph above for the rearmost shim; the other 'half' is placed on the forward side of the pedal box, inverted to the picture above. It just 'squares up' the fixings to the mounting surfaces. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David JLM Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Started the fitment this evening. Dry fitted both shims and found I need longer bolts as the bolts need to fit through the shim as well as the master cylinder and the nut - ordered 45mm to replace the 30mm and a selection of split pins for the rod connection. I cut a small section out of the shim closest to the cylinder to get it over the rod. I will also need to bring the brake/clutch forward to the position closest to the driver as the shim has pushed the pedal down to level with the accelerator. I was on max adjustment on the rod anyway so that should be okay... The brake pipes that were screwed to the top of the pedal box no longer will be... okay to leave them loose or are they at risk of vibration damage or similar? Not sure I could safely manipulate them back into their old position. Anything else I need to think about/do? Assuming all works out I'll post pics and some notes, as a full guide to fitting these is nowhere to be found! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David JLM Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Just when I thought I finished the job. Checked everything three times, and was just about to go on a slow test drive round the block... the car wouldn't steer more than a quarter turn left 🙈. The joint on the steering rack is fouled by the newly angled master cyclinder! Looks like I'm going I have adjust the steering wheel. If all else fails I could try going back to the old pedal but I've chopped the clutch bolt down so I don't think that would work. Is it just me or have others encountered this problem?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 10 Leadership Team Share Posted May 10 (edited) Looks to me as though you've plenty of room to move the clamp rearwards, towards the driver, to achieve clearance. It seems to be positioned currently in the most forward position. Loosening and repositioning just the clamp without moving either the column upper or lower pieces will not affect your current steering wheel position. James Edited May 10 by Shortshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David JLM Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Cheers James. I didn't think of just the clamp 👍. In the end it needed a bit of both but should be okay - there's some clearance now. I need to give it all a bit of running now and I'll no doubt need to make more adjustments to the pedals at least. Let's see if I can get off the drive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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