Titan LSD - Warranty claim

[David_Long]

If I understand you question correctly, the clamping down (preload travel) was about 1.7 mm according to my notes, so the travel would be in the order 0.9 mm for each side, or less that 50% available travel on the spring. As said there were no shims on mine, the shims on the gear ends (behind the thrust washers) just holds the gears and the axle central  - but they do take any unbalanced forces and if one side became worn, or a spring breaks, then they would be providing part of the preload.

 

As a bit of background this may be useful information 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

On my unit, the maximum movement of the clutch pack from preload position (0.56mm compression per Belleville to give 40lb ft preload) to Belleville outer edges touching the casing (at 78% deflection) is 1.68mm, i.e. 0.84mm per side, assuming minimal compression or wear of the clutch plates.

[Jeff210R]

What an absolute can of worms I've opened again!  After all that I must confess to being unsure now whether to go for a refurb of my Titan or change to a Tracsport or a trouble free, fit and forget Quaife.

[David_Long]

That's actually quite facinating! If yours is domed to limit compression to 78% and mine is going to 100%, but both have simialr travel, then it apears some thought must have been was given to the fatigue analyis on the spring. i.e. mine was able to uses more preload deflection (that reduces stress) but full deflection (more stress), while yours uses less preload deflection (more stress) and less of the total deflection (less stress). It would be interesting to know how the sums pan out.  

It's a good thought exercise to go through but enough is enough, so I'll end any further input here 

[ChrisC]

Yep - You can't post Titan and Diff on a Caterham forum without the Tracsportati hijacking the post.   After all the BMW Tracsport was only released last year, and its creator  this time last year would have been recommending a Titan,  

FYI other things to avoid, Best Engine, SV vs S3, Tyres etc etc, oh and actually being positive about anything Caterham does (with the exception of keeping the car alive for 48 years)

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[7 wonders of the world]

David / James 

Thanks for sharing those, so the permitted travel of the ramp blocks in your units once build is roughly 3 - 4 timesthat of a ZF and others, hence the extra fatigue this imparts on the springs, naturally when one or both fracture this accounts for the banging noise, there's also the increased NVH that will be experienced as the side gears are permitted to move in and out of mesh.

The units I've measured also see similar pack travel with one at 2.1mm

 

ChrisC

The Tracsport has been out a number of years in Sierra format, then seeing a high attrition rate of the Titan in the BMW final drive, a suitable version was created to meet owner demands for a reliable unit that works. Evolution.

Steve only releases his products once he has completed comprehensive testing, as opposed to letting paying customer to do this for him, which is pretty commendable in my book.

Clearly many post topics seem to bore you, but ultimately they may help develop the car we all love into a better package without owners seeing high and avoidable repair bills on a regular basis - no one is forcing you to read the posts.

 

 

 

[ECR]

FWIW

Steve had one of his diffs on test in a Seven in 2010......

[ChrisC]

WOW before Caterham released the BMW diff in the Seven, that's impressive.  So he had worked out the fitment of the 168 BMW diff to a Caterham, which even after release took a few redesigns before the cage and back plate where finally sorted.

[ECR]

Even Steve isn't that good  It was obviously in a Ford diff. A car owned by Keith Dunn

[Golf Juliet Tango]

I'm so glad that the Ital diff in my Crossflow engined Seven (about 150BHP) has given me now issues over 133,000 (plus a few) miles.

Also, if I understand "failure" of these limited slip differentials will not throw the car into traffic, or the hedge or bring you to an instantaneous grinding halt.

Or is this assessment wrong?

[7 wonders of the world]

Roger is correct and Steve also had a few in track cars to for about 4 years prior to release to the general public.

 

Quoting ChrisC:

After all the BMW Tracsport was only released last year, and its creator  this time last year would have been recommending a Titan, 

Steve has never ordered a new Titan LSD to sell to a customer for a BMW final drive, only ordering spares from Titan to repair failed, broken and damaged units.

He only ever fitted them to Ford units whilst his own was in production as the supply of ZF units ceased.

[ChrisC]

Steve  WAS  recommending Titan for BMW.

https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/bmw-open-diff-swap-lsd 

And it seems BIASSED posting Tracsport Ford information when Titan Ford references are dismissed.   

Tracsport BMW only released sometime in 2018, I stand corrected on this date, but at the time your post didn't seem to generate any interest.  

https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/bmw-final-drives-lsd  

The fact remains, Tracsport BMW products released to the market are only as old as the Titan reworked units fitted to ALL Caterham R models (except 620) since 2018, and so far there has been no reported premature failure since this update. 

  

[John Vine]

I just thank the stars that I have a Quaife ATB, enabling me to sit on the sidelines in comfort and watch the bun fight! 

Fascinating topic, all the same.  Keep it up, chaps.

JV

[ChrisC]

I am glad all you Tracsport owners are so passionate about your upgrade, but remember you are at the same time stirring needless worry in the minds of new and potential owners.  The life blood of Caterham and this club. 

I have had a number of new builders contact me directly, worried about something being wrong with their car after these threads.  I see no new information here, only rehashing old well-known issues.   

I am not worried about my Titan diff, nor should any owner of a car post 2018.    

[ScottR400D]

Chris, you're really going too far; in truth you have no relevant experience to enable a fair comment.

Pointing someone 'in the direction of Titan' 5 years ago when there was no alternative hardly confirms your 'its creator  this time last year would have been recommending a Titan' statement, which is clearly untrue.

As for your 'stirring up needless worry' comment is concerned, you're doing more of that than anyone else by highlighting the issue. If the Titan works for people, I'm sure they won't lose sleep over it. If it fails then it's good that there alternatives. To be honest, it sounds like you're the one who's worried.

Now I really am out. Good luck to everyone whatever you choose. 

 

 

[ChrisC]

I am worried about the damage this thread does.

I have been running Titan diffs since my return to Caterham ownership in 2012, with no failures or problems.  

I was quoting others that have posted, but you seem to be suggesting I personally attacking your decision to upgrade.  I am not.

 

 

[7 wonders of the world]

Oh ChrisC,

Just rolled with laughter reading your posts..... 

As was pointed out above Steve merely pointed someone in the direction of what was at the time the only source of an LSD for the BMW final drive.

The Titan design is the same for BMW and Ford 

Care to share your source of data relating to post 2018...?

I really do feel sorry for anyone taking advice form someone who has no idea, understanding to knowledge of the products.

Out of interest what mileage has yours covered now...? and what preload do you currently have...?

 

[ChrisC]

I posted the links for information. It's your post from 10th May 2018 that announced the release of the Tracsport BMW offering.  I feel you should read my post properly.

I have NEVER said the Titan design is the same for BMW and Ford, because obviously they are not.  

Thanks for being insulting; I have published the information on my Titan diff on this forum.  I have nothing more to add.

[7 wonders of the world]

I have read your posts Chris however your first link dates from Sept 28th 2016 at that time Steve pointed an enquiry in direction of Titan as his Tracsport was not available at that time.  

What is wrong with that..?

My post of May 2018 was purely for information making people aware that there was an alternative.

Could you please clarify the differences in design between the BMW and Ford variants ....?

 

[Jeff210R]

Anyway gentlemen. I'm definitely minded to go for a Quaife after reading all your illuminating (and sometimes acrimonious!) comments. I shall probably use their BMW stockist Birds to do the work. But would be interested if anyone has any observations regarding a better choice of installer?