Play between upper and lower steering columns?

[jackb_ms]

Hello All

I am having some difficulties eliminating play in the steering of my 21.

I have replaced the rack and there is still some play.

The issue is in the first five(ish) degrees of movement of the steering wheel in both direction nothing happen then the front wheel start to turn.

The rack is new so I will assume there is no play in it.

What is left is the link between the upper or lower columns, so the play must be coming from there.

I have tightens the two bolts of the clamp then the grub screw and then the locking nut. 

Every thing is "FT"!

So what I am doing wrong / not correct?

Which bit did I overlooked?

Jack

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I have replaced the rack and there is still some play.

The issue is in the first five(ish) degrees of movement of the steering wheel in both direction nothing happen then the front wheel start to turn.

Is that just what it what was like before changing the rack?

I have tightens the two bolts of the clamp then the grub screw and then the locking nut. 

Every thing is "FT"!

That's the right sequence on that strange assembly, as long as the grub screw was loose first. I'd expect you to see and feel that much play if that's where it's coming from... and suspect you also need to look elsewhere.

Jonathan

[jackb_ms]

The symptoms are the same before and after changing the rack.

The grub screw was not in the clamp.

It is such a simple system, the steering wheel is connected to the upper column which in turn is connected to the lower columns via the clamp which is connected to the universal joint which I could not feel any play in.

I'm puzzled by this issue.

I wonder if the grub screw could be at fault.

I think I need someone who could look at the steering columns when the steering wheel is turning.

Jack

[gulf 1]

I assume the trackrod  ends have no wear in them.

[jackb_ms]

The rack was bought complete from Redline and was fitted yesterday.

Jack

[Roger Ford]

I think I need someone who could look at the steering columns when the steering wheel is turning.

Very easy to look at the upper clamp while turning the wheel on a 7, can't you do that on a 21?

Do you have a quick-release steering wheel? That's usually the main culprit after the clamp. If not, then the universal joint near the rack might be to blame. 

[Wrightpayne]

Get a helper to rock the wheel whilst you check for play? Mine has play on the racetech splines on the removable wheel. Checking the MOT guidelines (cannot remember exact figures) but there needs to be quite a bit of slack before its a fail.

Ian

[jackb_ms]

On the 21 there are quite a few item in the way and I also have a set of RB THB hiding the clamp!

It's not really an issue with an MOT failure, it's more about feel as nothing for the first five(ish) degrees of movement of the steering wheel in both direction

Jack

 

[Roger Ford]

I'll repeat - do you have a removable steering wheel?

[jackb_ms]

The steering wheel is not on a removable one on a quick release

Jack

[Jim 123]

Maybe worth checking that the lower steering column bush hasn't come out of position?

[simon_h]

The 21 upper column is from a Calibra I seem to remember so it doesn't have the same bushing as a 7 but that doesn't mean it's not worn just harder to replace I expect. I would try a new uj in case there is slack that only becomes apparent when it's loaded up. 

[jackb_ms]

Hello all

 

I had a little helpier this evening and the play is back at the rack.

The upper and lower column as well as the UK move in unison.

So or I have a faulty new steering rack or the play news to be taken out from it.

 

Jack

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Sorry to hear that but it's good to have an explanation. Hope you get a replacement soon.

Jonathan

[SM25T]

Have you adjusted the preload screw on top of the rack. Loosen BIG locknut first.

[jackb_ms]

My next step would have been to call Redline for information "adjustment" on the rack and search the archive of Blatchat.

What does the "preload" screew do?

Will  i need to turn it clockwise or anticlockwise?

Jack

[Jonathan Kay]

From the archives... lots of hints but I don't know of a definitive guide.

Jonathan

[Tony P]

The several racks I've used over time needed some adjustment from new to get just right. The ‘adjuster’ on the rack alters how tightly the rack and pinion mesh; a small adjustment there will be quite noticeable at the steering wheel.

I found that ’in extremis’ if too slack it’s possible for the track rod to appear to wiggle fore or aft before having any lateral movement, and this can manifest itself as a few degrees of ’nothing happening’ when you begin to turn the wheel.

Did your helper check whether there was any steering movement at all during that ‘slack’ area? (There will always be a tiny amount of slack, if only in the tyre sidewalls, but assume you talking about a lot more than this.)

From memory (and if it hasn’t changed recently) that large nut on the rack is around 48mm; I seem to remember that a large adjustable spanner is hard to gain access with - I found that a (very) old fashioned Campagnolo bottom-bracket spanner was just the job (you can also get stubby ones in those sizes quite cheaply). Don’t remember the hex size for the grub screw, but if it isn’t metric it’s possibly the common-on-a-Seven 7/32”… 

If it [i[is[/i] just a matter of adjustment I'm sure Redline will be able to talk you through it more effectively than I though.

[simon_h]

Surprised you should have to adjust a new rack. I'd send it back rather than try to cover up a fault and let them sort it out. 

[SM25T]

36mm across flats from an old post.

[Tony P]

Ah, ok... on reflection 48mm does sound a bit much, even for a bottom bracket.

[jackb_ms]

Hello

Thank you for the explanation Tony

My helper was my 8 year old daughter who wiggle the steering wheel when I was looking at what was happening.

I will call Redline this morning and see what they say.

Jack

[jackb_ms]

Hello All

Well tonight I printed the two pages of the build manual for the 21 and decided to undo nd all concerning the steering and start again.

And after fitting everything back as per the manual the play is gone!

So I'm happy that the issue is solved, but very puzzle has where was the issue.

Jack

[ScottR400D]

So you didn't actually adjust the rack? 

[jackb_ms]

I didn't adjust the rack

I've call Redline in the morning and Mike advise against trying to adjust the rack.

Maybe it was a case of "if in doubt read the manual"

Jack