VX Engine Oil - 10w 50, or 10w 60?

[Tazio]

As OPIE have an offer on over the weekend for 15% I thought it would be a good idea to take advantage of it!. The question is should I go for 10w 50 or 10w 60.

Any thoughts?

[Paul Deslandes]

I use exclusively Millers 10-60 CFS (Competition Fully Synthetic) in my dry sump 240bhp Vx 2 litre.

If you still have the wet sump with foam baffle, you should frequently check the state of the foam (change it anyway whilst the sump's off) as any modern oil causes them to clog and/or break up (neither good!) and fully synthetic may make this happen even more quickly.  The deterioration is likely to be time rather than mileage dependent as it's the soaking in oil that causes the problem.  Preferably check every six months max in my experience before going dry sump, and certainly no longer than 12 months.

Paul

[Martym]

Interesting advice, I have a 1.6vx 8v. Do these engines have the foam baffle ?

[Paul Deslandes]

I suspect that they might but don't know, but someone will.

[Tazio]

Thanks Paul, mine is a dry sumped  256 bhp motor, so I'll go with the 10w 60, though according to Opie the Millers has been discontinued, so I'll go with the Fuchs.

Appreciate the input.

Alan

[Paul Deslandes]

Interesting that Opie don't have it listed now as it is on the Millers site

CFS10 60

I'm sure any reputable oil will do the job.

Paul

[Johnh]

Regarding the foam baffle question on 8 valve vx is yes they do and I've just changed mine.. the old baffle has been in for 16 years and looked no different to the new one I fitted which is surprising as I've been told the recommended change for a baffle is 3 to 6000 MLS I think that is a bit bonkers though.. (cost £52 ish inc vat from redline) the oil I've used for the past two years of ownership is a semi synth 10w50 changed every 3000 MLS. Motor was as clean as a whistle inside when inspected during the change.

ps only use the genuine vx sump gaskets the flimsy cork ones without the tork limiters are are risky for leaks.

[Paul Deslandes]

I'm relieved for you and astonished John that the foam hadn't deteriorated in that time although it may be that the semi-synthetic is less damaging to the foam material than fully synth.  I suppose it's also possible that Redline have found an alternative material for the job which would be a great improvement.

Before I went DS some years ago, I removed the foam that was less than one year old and it more resembled an oil saturated rag than open cell foam, and saw the same with a friend's similarly engined car.  Worse still, they were both beginning to break up, the eventual consequences of which would have been disastrous.

Paul

ps totally agree with comment re sump gaskets.  There are also some useful tips in the archive about how more easily to refit the sump, using short lengths of M4 (?) stud and nuts in place of a couple of the bolts, temporarily to locate and align the sump before fully bolting up.

[Martym]

thanks for info, i have no idea if the foam in my sump has been removed. i assume its to stop oil slushing to stop it from not being at oil pick up ?

[Johnh]

Your rite Martym it's to stop the sloshing about and possibly not being sucked up the pick up pipe.

As far as I am aware the foam redline supply is sourced from America hence the price I suppose.

i definitely would not be tempted to purchase any of these foam baffles from an unknown and trusted source!!

these 8 valve engines use a semi synth oil also.. as an ex motor engineer you know when an engine has been pulled apart for the first time as was the case with mine and there was little doubt that the foam was original so I was surprised to see it in the condition it was after hearing some horror stories about the foam breaking up and finding its way up the pick up pipe (nasty) ..I let the old foam drain for a couple of days and then tried pulling it about a bit to see if it crumbled but it stayed together..I just hope the new foam is as good as the original ... if you have one of these engines I would as a mater of caution take a look like I did..

one of the best tips I got from redline was to use the two long bolts that secure the rear of the sump pan as a guide when putting the sump back ..use them  either side the sump as a support and guide  when gently compressing the foam onto the windage plate then use the rest of the bolts to line it all up before refitting  the two long ones into the rear of the sump pan.

​

[Martym]

Thanks Johnh.. my car is a 99 1.6vx & guess engine is actually older. I think I will need to take a look now.. will call Redline for foam, do you know if they sell the proper sump gasket ? Regarding oil, would 15w40 semi to the right grade ?

[Paul Deslandes]

Interesting that you let the foam drain for a couple of days.  I wonder if it was really as clogged as that makes it sound because, if so, the oil would really struggle to get through the foam at the required rate, if at all.  I haven't tried it but I would have thought that a new foam or one in good condition would pretty much drain fully in a matter of minutes rather than days.

A male hex Allen tool in an electric screwdriver speeds things up too - just don't over tighten the screws.

Paul

[Johnh]

I wanted to make sure the foam was clear of oil to be able to do a proper examination of the baffle ..the sieve used showed no signs of sediment also .. can supply a photo of the foam if you like?

ps power screwdrivers are a no no when doing up engine bolts .. it's always best trust the feel of different sized bolts by hand

[Martym]

I have just dropped my 1.6vx sump tonight as i dont think it has been off before (18yrs) baffle still in great condition & flexable. I have ordered a new one though which will fit along with new gaskets.

 

[Paul Deslandes]

That's really interesting and I can only assume that the material has been improved over the years or semi synth doesn't have the same impact on the foam as fs.  Either way it's good news.

In general I agree with your comment re power tools.  Howewever, using a screwdriver on its lowest break torque setting makes life a lot easier when lying on your back under the car.

Paul

[Lotus Boy]

When I bought my 2.0VX HPC twelve years ago, when it was  ten years old, I took it to Steve Parker (RIP-such a lovely bloke) to give it a thorough review. 

When he dropped the sump he found the baffle to be like crispy seaweed. Steve flushed the engine through. I had a lucky escape. When speaking with the previous owner, who was incredibly fastidious and one of the reasons I bought the car, he simply didn't know about it. Wasn't part of the build or service info he had when he built it. 

It's a joke now that the baffles cost over £50. I recall paying just £14 each for them from Caterham in the late noughties when I changed them myself. 

Im half interested in the metal baffle offered by Caterham Austria next time I replace. 

 

Sorry to take your oil topic off track!

[johnnyseven]

In 10yrs I've changed the sump foam 3 times on my c20xe -never seen the slightest sign of any of them breaking up- they have been the yellow redline supplied ones- using Mobil 1 Motorsport fully synthetic15/50w ( not made anymore and I've runout for next change unfortunately )

[Lotus Boy]

Yes must say I change mne every other year and it always comes out looking fine (I'm only doing about 500 miles a year at present if that makes a difference) and use Comma SynerG 5w40.

I think in the past that people have said what compromises the baffle is if you change oil types (grades, make etc.) with the same baffle.  No idea how much there is in that.

[Jonathan Kay]

I think in the past that people have said what compromises the baffle is if you change oil types (grades, make etc.) with the same baffle.  No idea how much there is in that.

Probably not much, except in the sense that it's likely to have been in there longer if it's been exposed to several different oils. Same effect as "mixing your drinks".

Jonathan

[Paul Deslandes]

Assuming that the foam material hasn't changed then it has to be oil make or type or, maybe, additives.  I used several different oils over the years before I went dry sump and I seem to remember that it was only later that I had the problem with the foam, and that might coincide with starting to use Millers, but I certainly can't be sure.  Again I can't be certain but when we did a friends car about 10 years ago, the foam was like a house brick and about as porous, and I think he might have been using Millers as well.

Either way I would certainly change them no less often than every two years and keep an eye on oil pressure, especially when taking corners in a spirited fashion.

Paul

[alan c]

Has anyone got any direct experience of the metal baffle offered by Caterham Austria?

Or for that matter aware of anything else similar ?

i don't feel the need for a full dry sump but would like to avoid the foam if I can

[Lotus Boy]

Gordon Blair (hope I have that right) who I see on the FB pages has one. Think he is planning to fit it this spring. Haven't heard of anyone else in the UK who is running one yet. 

I suppose it begs the question why something like that wasn't designed in the first place? Cost factor for Caterham?