Duckpit Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Currently I have an Ital axle with quaiffe diff. I want to upgrade the engine to circa 200bhp, but the axle will not last.Any thoughts on a replacement back axle & what changes I have to make in order to fit Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Escort - then get some dedion front hubs and you'll be able to use the same pcd wheels all around.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You will have to alter the width of the tunnel at the diff flange, some have done it with a rubber mallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Escort Axle, brace and mounting points welded on by Arch Motors.Mk1 and 2 Escort axles are the same apart from the Mk1 has imperial wheel studs.Lots of ratios available either second hand or new from Burtons in Ilford.Aluminium diff cases available from SPC in Reddich. Steve Perks used to do a complete new Ford based axle but it's not on the SPC website now.Lots of ways of fitting discs, mine are Fiesta front discs with Peugeot 106/205 rear calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks, i have the English axle on my Lotus 7S3 so can probably weld myself, but my research says the English axle is good to about 160bhp and the Ital to 150bhp, so not a lot of gain for the pain ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I have build a 7 for circuit use only with a Zetec engine 190 BHP trough a Ford English axle, 3J LSD and half shafts that handles it without any problem. It only runs a reinforcing tube on top from side to side and uses a 5 link set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_T Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The previous owner of my car fitted a newly-fabricated English axle at quite great expense.Sadly it was pretty hopeless. There was no brace and a split A-Frame mount meant it leaked oil in quite a big way. Furthermore, failure to remove the old bumpstops didn't help handling. (Oh, and oil used to centrifuge into the nearside wheel due to bearing issues).Thankfully James Whiting was able to put together a properly engineered replacement which (touch wood) has been completely trouble free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I think the perception that English axles are only good for 160 up comes from use in rally cars where the cars are a lot heavier and jumps and rocks give greater loadings.I've used an lsd equipped English axle with standard half shafts for around 15years with a 190 up Zetec, mainly for sprints and hill climbs. The only failure was in 2007 when I broke a half shaft whilst doing doughnuts. I don't do that anymore!I've recently upgraded to 250 bhp and haven't broken anything yet, touch wood.If I was speccing a new axle, I'd go for atlas splined side gears in the diff, and then group 1 atlas half shafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Nigel, that is what the 3 J half shafts are, in fact you have the choice of half shaft splines when you buy theirs LSD. should be good for 250 horses depending on torque and grip but in a 7 should be ok. But the A frame set up doesn't help the axle casing coping with big HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Eli, I think my axle brace is from Arch, it is made from flat steel plate welded horizontally across the back of the axle. I presume this is stop the axle casing bending under the load from the A frame mounting under the diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks for all your help, It seems achievableSo I need an English axle, add quaife LSD, weld a flat plate horizontally across back of axle as with the ItalWhat about PCD do I need new wheels ? if so what size rimsWhat about prop shaft does it need altering, and the propshaft flange ?Add fixings as per my Lotus S3, take them off the ItalWhat about disc conversion ?Can I get away with standard half shafts and crown wheel and pinion with 200bhp? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Is the English axle the same as the Atlas axle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeven Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 English is not the same as an Altas; you need an English in a 7.I have one that looks to have been retro-fitted into my 1988 S3 which presumably had an Ital originally. Tha axle case has been heavily braced which looks like a very nice job so I assume was done by Arch. in line with what someone has already said the back right hand side of the tranny tunnel has been "modified" (quite crudely but been like that for a very long time).I assume you will need to get your prop altered with a replacement rear joint and re-balanced but that shouldnt break the bank at a propshaft specialist. There are a number of rear disc conversions available from around £400, you may need a bias valve too.Mine has a Quaife LSD and 4.1 CWP and what I believe to be standard half shafts. The car is running a 2.0 Zetec and SPC 'box. No doubt if you are sprinting using big sticky tyres upgraded half shafts would be a good idea but generally speaking I think that an English axle in a lightweight car like a 7 is pretty bombproof.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Atlas axle is from a Capri, its recognisable by the pigs nose casting and the access cover on the back of the axle. Quite a lot heavier than as English but the axle of choice for most Escort rally cars.Many rally car preparers an F2 stock car racers do a conversion do disc brakes ar a price.For a diy approach, choose some suitable calipers, mine are Peugeot 106/205. Early Fiesta top hat front discs. Make up caliper brackets, these can weld on, or bolt to the old backplate mounting points. If I remember correctly you need to retain the wheelbearings with some spacers.The flanges of the halfshafts need facing up in a lathe to provide a flat mounting for the discs.Its all pretty simple stuff.i fitted a balance valve in the rear circuit, but with 4 pot front brakes I have it wound fully off.The drive flange on my diff is Anglia which is smaller than Escort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Has anyone tried the Rakeway Ital upgrade ?http://www.rakeway.co.uk/page37.htmlWill it solve the problems with the Ital axle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSedlacek Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 As I understand it the '150BHP limit' for the Ital axle comes from the bevel gear carrier at the heart of the diff. If you have a Quaife LSD you should be able to run quite a bit more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Final drive flange - Mk 1 escort is a smaller diameter than the Mk 2 Escort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Bit of info here:http://www.our-nest.co.uk/Caterham/html_files/2002_ford_axle.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I run a Graham Sykes built uprated Ital axle with lightweight rear bracing, Quaife ATB, James Whiting's disc brake conversion with crossdrilled rotors, Rakeway uprated halfshafts, hubs and bearings and Hi Spec handbrake rear calipers and am very pleased with it. When we went disc braked, I also moved to Ford studs and spacing, so run Caterham 6" and 8" (no, not at the same time...) wheels (and ali hubs on the front allow that there too). Only have 150bhp (Crossflow) though so can't comment on reliability with more power than that.My understanding though was that the thing that kills Ital axles is bouncing hard over kerbs e.g. when on circuits?What I like about the Ital is it's lighter than the Ford and is it wider too (can't remember!)? Switching to the Hi Spec calipers also changed the feel of the car for the better and lighter weight on a live axle does seem to benefit handling. That said, I'm not the quickest driver so my comments may be way off!Some of these mods might be an alternative to switching axles but I'd talk to James Whiting and get his views. Not much about these things he doesn't know, and he's a top bloke!Good luck with whatever you decide to do.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Running a plate LSD would reduce the shock loading from kerb hoping,The Quaife ATB offers no protection from this as it allows you to suffer engine flare and therefore the unloaded wheel gets a kicking as it comes back to earth.Pretty sure Steve @ SP components still does his bomb proof English axle too, even though it may nor be on his new website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I did look for the Tracksport axle to post a link to, but I couldn't find it. Last time I spoke to Steve he didn't have any of the brake conversions kits, so perhaps the demand for axle stuff outside of the norm isn't there.I'm having thoughts about Ali diff nose and gearbox casings at the moment... pricey, but light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Money maybe better spent on a carbon fibre prop as its rotational weight ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Possibly - but don't they have to be checked and x-rayed on a regular basis?Diff is sprung mass on a LA, so weight removed helps the ride and response to bumps, etc...Gearbox - just a pipe dream. Besides, the gearbox is one of the few original things left on my car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckpit Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have heard many people mention a TR7 axle being similar to the Ital but perhaps beefed up, does anyone know about this ? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Only the TR7 4 speed versions have the 'English' style axle, 5 speed has a Salisbury style axle, i never had a TR7 axle next to a Ital version to compare. A dolomite rear axle would also be an option, the 1850 axle that is http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID008479 but what i heard from the past is that Rimmer is not help full in providing info about the differences.Jigsaw racing specializes in Triumph race cars and he more help full they may shed a light about comp ability of those axles, they also do a up rated version od the half shafts.http://jigsawracingservices.com/anyway you will still need to baffle the axle and depending the type of half shaft u use u might need to shim it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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