Advice please - Fire Extinguisher (hand held) - what sort and where to fit?

[NeilCSR]

Don't have an extinguisher in the car at present, from past experience it's very worthwhile (stopped my Elan turning to a cinder years ago with a Halon extinguisher) so I'm going to put one in, but what sort would anyone recommend, and also where to fit?

Three types - dry powder, AIFF (foam), inert gas.  Halon (now illegal) worked very well previously, powder can be a nightmare and detrimental to electrics and foam isn't recommended for electrical fires, but with a cut-off switch that isn't so critical.

Fitting?  In previous Sevens I've fitted on the floor in front of the driver's seat - but with a lowered floor that's difficult.  Between the seats on the rear panel?

Any advice would be welcome, not that I'm expecting it to be used imminently, but it's good insurance.

Neil

 

[Cookie Monster]

I've got plumbed in now.

I did have a floor mounted one in front of the pax seat. I have lowered floor & no problem to fit.

[Jonathan Kay]

There's a vast amount on this in the archives, and it would be great if someone could summarise it as a Guide. It might need two: one for racing and one not.

Same thought as Cookie Monster: what's the problem with transverse mounting in front of the passenger seat with the lowered floors?

Jonathan

[paul richards]

Dry powder. In front of passenger seat. 

[Ian B]

In the SV I had one mounted on the lowered floor in front of the drivers seat - figured I could reach it easier/quicker if needed, than if it was on the passenger side.

I bolted the bracket to the floor and then it was secured to the bracket with a velcro strap.

[Paul Deslandes]

Although I've never had to let one off in anger I understand that dry powder are extremely effective but make one hell of a mess that's difficult to clean off an engine.  My plumbed in Lifeline system is AFFF (Aqueous Fire Fighting Foam), also available as handheld.

While on the subject, does anyone know if there's an accredited Lifeline service/refilling agent in the south east?  I'm about to send mine off to Merlin at Castle Coombe for its two yearly service as they seem to be the nearest.

Paul

[Jonathan Kay]

UK* dealers and refillers... Wallingford?

Jonathan

* Once you've fought the website into submission.

[Cookie Monster]

There is one near my office in London Colney, Herts that I have used & they turned it around next day but not that close to you I guess: 

http://www.camauto.com/lifeline-fire

 

[Paul Deslandes]

Thanks but none within cost saving driving distance, so I'll have to courier it down to Merlin.  Not too bad if I use Parcel2go.

Apologies for the hijack.

Paul

[The_ASH]

Lots of pros and cons regarding plumbed or hand held. My first Seven had a hand held one fitted in front of the passenger seat on the floor, it seemed to always be in the way for new passengers, I never had to use it in anger. My last car had the standard Academy setup (plumbed in mounted in boot with single nozzle in engine bay facing forwards from bulkhead), again I never used it.

From years ago I remember the classic nightmare rally car fire story, car has smoke coming from engine bay, car pulls off onto verge to investigate, flames now visible, plumbed in system triggered car fire extinguished but verge under car now alight, car gutted as no hand held present and bottles of plumbed system emptied.

I remember putting out a VW Transporter minibus fire years ago with a powder extinguisher, there was something wrong with the diesel cabin heater so was spraying ignited raw diesel forwards and had set fire to plastic bumper, I put the melting bumper out only to have it re-ignite from behind again only when the owner opened the small bonnet could the cause be properly accessed, again a hand held saved the day.

The main issue is brake fluid once that has ignited (it has a considerably lower flashpoint than petrol) and/or the reservoir melted the fire can be hard to put out. Typically with fire training you are told not to open panels to access a fire as it can feed it with oxygen, not sure if I'd take the bonnet off a Seven on my own to access an engine bay fire although I'm sure it would already have plenty of oxygen!

[Paul Deslandes]

I think my aim with the plumbed in is to buy myself enough time to get out rather than saving the car, although that would obviously be a bonus.  The benefit of the handheld is that, so long as it's readily accessible, you can help someone else, in which case powder may be the best answer.

Didn't know that about brake fluid

[The_ASH]

Oh yes, petrol will quite happy boil away on an exhaust manifold whereas brake fluid will auto-ignite.

[ScottR400D]

Some interesting information in this thread but I'm puzzled by the comments about the flash point of brake fluid being lower than that of petrol, which it isn't. It's much, much higher, as is its boiling point, for obvious reasons.

Also from what I can find the auto ignition points are similar for modern brake fluids and petrol.

 

 

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I'm puzzled too. I'm sure we're close to swapping boiling points, flash points and flame points. But in the spirit of antiantiempiricism... who has a cine camera and a spare hour? :-)

Jonathan

PS: What sort of brake fluid was that, The_ASH, please?

PPS: Cine camera? CINE CAMERA? You only need a 'phone nowadays, but I always forget.

[The_ASH]

Just Dot 3 or 4, the silicone stuff (which everyone says don't use) is much higher. I remember it being shown on TV at one stage, 5th Gear or old old Top Gear perhaps, can't find it on YouTube at present.

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks

Jonathan

[The_ASH]

I found this from the dark ages

 but I'm sure I've seen something much more recent.

[paul richards]

I'm sorry your information is incorrect. 

Before retirement I was a Risk Analyst (Fire, Theft etc.) and if I recall correctly the flashpoint of petrol is -43 degrees C. whereas the flashpoint of brake fluid is typically greater than +135 degrees C.

I recommended a dry powder extinguisher, as this is the most versatile coping with flammable liquid, electric fires etc. and therefore most suited to cars. A messy clean up is not an excuse for having the incorrect extinguisher.

[ScottR400D]

As Jonathan predicted!

Dot 3,4 or 5 brake fluid flash point, above 275F

Petrol flash point below -45F

Auto ignition Dot 4 1200F, Dot 3 and petrol about 525F

[Jonathan Kay]

I want to see them burn!

Jonathan

PS: "Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?" :-)

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks, Paul: I have ****** but thought I might be out of date. (I once had a stand-up argument with the Hospital's Fire Officer about types of extinguishers.)

CORRECTED: I have AFFF in the cars and garage, and powder in the house.

Jonathan

PS: Everyone got that point about not opening bonnets etc when you don't know what's behind them? Also applies to doors in buildings. But how do you test them... ?

[The_ASH]

JK - Much as I'd like to assist, putting the Back to the Future'esque "it was a science experiment" on the insurance claim form once I've burnt the house down doesn't cut it for me. :-)

[Jonathan Kay]

:-)

When are the Darwin Awards this year?

Jonathan

[metal mickey]

Best way to test a door before opening it is with the back of your hand, if it's hot you will feel it and instinctively pull away. DO NOT touch the door handle! Least not until you,have ascertained the temp inside the compartment.

After that if you absolutely have to open the door do so from a kneeling on one knee position. If the door opens towards you then kneel behind the door so if it does flash you will be shielded to some extent by the door. If it opens away from you open it for a few seconds and have a quick squint then close it. If there is a developed fire within then forget about it and if possible retreat to a safe distance. 

[The_ASH]

Can anyone answer as to why in the old TG vid I linked to the fuel boils off but the brake fluid ignites. Has brake fluid changed in the last 25 years?