essIII Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi, hopefully this doesn't come across as too much of a newbie question. I've had my 2004 K Series R500 SV out for 3 long (45 mins to 2 hours) runs so far, and each time oil temp has peaked around 55 degrees but tends to be settling around 50 degrees. Water temps are higher - maybe 65 degrees.This seems surprisingly cool to me so I guess there's a few questions: - Would you expect it to run hotter? - Is it just because I'm new to the car and the roads are slippy so I'm not driving hard enough to properly heat it up - Assuming it should be running hotter, is there an accepted approach to achieving this. I briefly read someone suggesting insulating the swirl tower. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 In cold weather I run two strips of gaffer tape across bottom of radiator grille. Keeps coolant temp more in 70-75℃ whilst going along. Oil temp most influenced by power demand when lots of heat goung through pistons and revs where much higher oil circulation going one. Try driving it harder! :). Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 What stat (if any ) are you running in the cooling system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Most likely you will have a 74c stat in there. Minister the original engine builder recommend the engine should run at 75c + or - 5c.i was in the same position as you with the oil rarely getting above70c unless on track or stationary in traffic. I have just fitted remote PRRT system with an 82c stat and now it sits around a stable 80c for most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Do be aware that the oil takes about 15 minutes longer than the water to warm up .... so don't give it too many revs for the first 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 18, 2015 Member Share Posted December 18, 2015 As above: what thermostat and is it working? (Traditional test involves a kitchen and thermometer.)It looks as if some modern 7s are overcooled and won't get up to a desirable temperature when cruising on cold days. Blanking looks like the best solution to me. But does yours get a lot hotter when you stop just after the run and leave the engine running?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Cheers for the input guys.Off the top of my head I've no idea what stat is in the car (or if it's working!!) - definitely sounds like my first port of investigation (which is going to have to wait until next week now :( ). NASCAR style gaffer tape blanking does sound like a simple but effective solution if the stat is working fine. I can see the benefit of fitting a remote PRT stat, but that looks like a much more involved solution - maybe best combined with other engine work (refresh) in the future. Assuming the previous owner didn't fit one (as I said, investigation needed!).Cheers again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I have had my R500K since it was new in 2000. The first thing I would say is don't worry about it too much. So long as you respect the fact that it is a full race engine from the late 90's, these things are totally reliable these days (the very first weren't!) And don't worry about rebuilds - the official rebuild mileage (this is not often realised) is actually double the mileage recommendation for a Swindon Vauxhall!However, temperature management is very important. When my car was new, I was given a very firm briefing by Minister about how to look after it. First, the minimum oil temperature for using significant throttle (say over half) and 5,000 RPM is 50 deg C. As it says above, it can take a while to get there. So long as it is above that level, you will be OK, though 70-odd is ideal. At this time of year you may need to blank part of the radiator to get it to reach that. One piece of education that Jez Coates gave me at the time is to think of the engine of a 'system' and not to think of oil and water temperatures as separate. The maximum oil temperature is 105 deg C. This doesn't sound much, but the sensor is in the bulk oil tank and they say that if the bulk oil is at 105 deg C, the oil at the bearing would be 140 deg or so. Jez's solution to the fact that on circuit the oil temperature was too high was a bigger water radiator. It worked of course. Max water temp, by the way should be about 84 - 86 deg. If on circuit it goes above that you probably have the "Version 1" radiator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 - thanks for that, really useful. I pretty much always have the Stack set to show me oil temps, certainly haven't been giving it any beans under 50 degrees - haven't really had much chance to give it the beans at all! I know I'll be ultra paranoid the first time I take it on track, so I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on temps and levels all day! I'd hope that as it's a 2004 car, it'll have the later radiator on it (I realise that Caterhams are not always logical though) - any visual indicators that make the version 1 easily identifiable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 If yours is an R500 Evo engine (i.e. the 2 litre one) you are very lucky. That is the best engine ever put into a Caterham IMHO. It has a much better crank than the 1800's - made by a French firm which somehow was far better balanced than the 1800 Farndon steel crank. It will certainly have the big radiator as it was a special build engine. You can tell the "triple pass" rad because it has a flat top, but as I say, yours will certainly have all the best kit if it is a real EVO engine, including an ECU driven fan.When you take it on track, once the oil is over 50deg, it is actually the water that you probably need to keep a more frequent eye on. It can go above the ideal level quite easily and with the 1800's certainly, if it goes above just 86 deg (IIRC) it will start to retard the ignition to protect itself.Also on track, watch the oil level. It should be 9 3/4 inches above the bottom of the oil bell/tank housing when hot and the engine has just been switched off. I was advised to build a gauge out of stiff wire with a kink in it at the right point as the original dip sticks have a habit of dropping out when hot! Three of mine did ust that! The other measure if you have a catch tank is to fill until some starts to vent into the catch tank. Some (healthy) engines use quite a bit of oil, others hardly any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yep, genuine 2.0 litre Evo engine - couldn't look past it once I'd driven it! Only had her for about 10 days, so very much still in the ignorantclueless stages of ownership! Cheers for the water temp and oil level tips. I do have a catch tank, and my dipstick on the swirl tower cap is still intact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Welcome to the club. I have a brand new R500 stat plus new seal kicking around if you find that your stat is missing/stuck open and explaining your low running temperature. It's this one. Engine sounds amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Finally had a chance to have a brief poke around the car this afternoon. Am I right in thinking if there were a thermostat on the cooling system you'd expect to find it housed in here, where the top hose from the rad meets the engine?http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/rich8778/20151221_153653_zpsadaq7ig1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 No, the stat housing is on the other side of the engine where the J-shaped hose goes into the back of the water pump, under the throttle bodies. You will have a stat housing regardless of whether you have a stat in there or a gutted stat to keep the seal in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 This big blue J piece going into what I assume is the black stat housing?http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/rich8778/20151221_153609_zpszioafryh.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 That's the puppy! There's only one small securing bolt holding the housing to the block (which you can see in your photo) and then you can pull the whole thing out. You may need to replace the O-ring if it has swollen up and won't go back in properly. However, you might be able to just disconnect the J-hose (blue thing) and get a mirror and torch to peer into the stat housing and see what's in there without too much dismantling. You will need to refill and bleed the cooling system of course.Edit: interesting to note the MSA tag on the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essIII Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Awesome, cheers for the help!And yep, there's a series of MSA Tags lock wired to the bolts on the top of the engine - will grab a pic showing all of them and post it up at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Minister used those blue MSA seals to seal their engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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