bigdog Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I just had a rather long conversation with a Mr. David Saville Peck in BC. The Canadian Caterham dealer. I have learned quite a few interesting things about my 7.But first, Could someone explain or even show me where I can find the Arch chassis number. I have looked every where around the roll bar mount area and I haven't seen any thing.In a nutshell. My car was registered as a 1983 Caterham. The V5 shows this. But Mr. Peck thinks I have a much later Caterham. Probably stolen at some point? Who knows.The front suspension has both a lower & upper A-arm with the sway bar running parallel to the upper A-arm. The radiator is all alu mounted in the very front with an electric fan on the back side.It has a T9 5spd & a De-Dion rear suspension.The roll ber is mounted to the top frame structure via a tab at a 45 angle towards the rear.It has inertia reel belts, With harnesses added.The front hubs have the lower ball joint that has a bolt that runs through the bottom of the lower A-arm.The heater is a later unit that has the adjustable vents and the leg roaster vents under the bulkhead.The one missing thing is the Arch chassis number near the roll bar.All of these things point "according to Mr. Peck" That my car is much later than a 1983 Sprint. He suggested that it might be a mid 90's car. HMMMM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 A 1990s car will have the later style pedal box with a removable cover. The chassis number is stamped under this cover on the chassis frame. It is also stamped on the wiper mount, but the scuttle needs to be removed to see this clearly.The Arch jig number (1 or 2) is stamped on the chassis adjacent to the roll over hoop mount on the RHS. This can get hidden if the car has been re painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thanks.It does have the removable pedal box cover. I suspect that the car was repainted at some point as I can't see any number at all near the roll hoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The front suspension, does it have a combined mounting point for the upper wishbone rear leg and damper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yes. A rather large bolt goes through the upper shock eyelet then through the upper A-arm pivot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Apologies for how that post looks. It was fine while previewing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The front suspension points are easily updated with a short front, other elements will date the car. If the rear upper damper mounting is a horizontal bolt fixing rather than vertical with a nut near the roll bar (like the live axle cars which continued like this) then it is certainly post 90. However it may simply have had a major upgrade by the previous owner around a new chassis. Not all chassis have a jig number stamped by arch. It depends on the spec of the chassis and whether it was built on multiple jigs.chassis number can be in several places, inside or around the pedal box top cover flanges, on the upper engine bay diaganol or on the upper outer chassis rail for example. Have you checked the chassis number on the V5 and chassis plate against the club vin decoder?to help date it, is it a centre park brake, what diameter are the chassis diaganols in the engine bay and can you post a pic around the roll bar base and dash board?eitherway sounds like you have a nice toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Quoting Mavic above"If the rear upper damper mounting is a horizontal bolt fixing rather than vertical with a nut near the roll bar then it is certainly post 92ish." Guy, My 1990 chassis has the horizontal mounting bolt for the rear upper damper mounting so the above is suspect ..... The description of the car certainly makes it a lot younger than a 1983 Caterham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 According to Chris Rees' The Magnificent 7, the De Dion was introduced in 1985 and the 5-speed T9 box in 1986, so your 1983 does seem too early.You might find the chassis number at the rear of the pedal box, under the copper brake line.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ok Roger, I knew the swap was around 1990 but remembered it later, (I did say ish :-). ) edited above as certainly in 89 the damper mount was vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Its all mixed up out there.Generally 1992 is a date of change.1996 is also "in general" when the front damper mount was moved from the wishbone to the chassis.There are still some cars being built in 1999 with the top rear damper mount as a stud.And don't even start trying to work out the through the tube or below tube lower rar damper mount!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 That's a little strange. The number plate if originally on a vehicle would suggest a 1996 car.need somone with access to HPI or similar to search the reg number/ chassis plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I had a "quick" look under the pedal box and saw nothing. The only thing I came up with on the VIN decoder was that it's a long cockpit chassis (LCS46400R) is what's on the very old V5. I also have a British Motor Industry Heritage Trust certificate that says my Caterham is (according to factory records) a 1983 seven. I'm actually not to worried, More curious than anything. But yet. In the back of my mind I'm wondering if this could have been a nicked car at a some point and been reregistered under a binned cars old documents, As I've not found any VIN markings other than the riveted ID plate. I just wonder why someone would have made all those upgrades (making the car more sellable & valuable) and not have disclosed said "upgrades". I had posted the reg number on the Zed-4 forum and they said that didn't look right either as N987 MFG shows a first reg date of 1995-1996. here was a discussion on the plate from the zed forum. http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=59461 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The combination of "Date of Registration 12.06.83" and an "N" prefix reg no is strange indeed.The DVLA vehicle record shows this: JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Found something else interesting. I also have a V561 Certificate of Permanent Export dated 12.03.1988. It was exported to: Long Meadows Cottage, Pine tree lane, Belfast, BT59 7EY. The thing that I hadn't noticed before is the following statement in the "special notes" area:All above details shown on this certificate are taken from the build records-chassis number KCS/1355/RIt keeps getting curiouser & curiouser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The N987 MFG number plate seems to have been originally assigned in Brighton, which is only 50 miles from Farnham where the "previous keeper" shown on the V5 is from. Perhaps the car used a new chassis after an accident that merged the Belfast cars' parts into a new vehicle that DVLC issued a new registration for? The DVLC rule is that a car can't use a number plate that is newer than the age the car is deemed to be, so they must have deemed it to effectively be a 1995/96 or newer car for an "N" reg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aerobod, I was thinking along those lines myself. It's just more of an interesting mystery than a real worry. I would however like the mystery solved so it can become part of the history and charm of my seven.I'm glad that only the number plate reflected it being a newer car, As a 1992 or newer 7 wouldn't make it through the gauntlet of the US DOT & EPA. The US government does not like illegal cars to cross our borders. Illegal people, That's fine. But illegal cars will be turned away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I hope you're not in any danger of asking questions to which you may not wish to know the answers!It's my understanding that around that time, to issue a new vehicle registration, which this obviously is, the DVLA required that certain key parts were new and unused, including the diff, rack and some suspension components. I've got the full list somewhere. Otherwise it would have had either the reg of the donor vehicle or a 'Q' plate, now discontinued.I see it's a 1600, is that a crossflow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As you say, curiouser and curiouser! Have you been in touch with John Watson, the club historian? Also, a call to the DVLA would (should, anyway) shed some light, but there's always the risk that you may draw unwanted attention to yourself! From your V5, it appears that Mr Flowers owned the car from first registration (or, more strictly, that he was the first Registered Keeper) until May 1993. Does that make sense?The Taxation Class of "Historic Vehicle" puzzles me, as that normally requires a date of manufacture no later than 1973.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stridey Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It may be nothing, but the dates look odd as it seems to show 'O' s (letter Os) and '0' s (zeros) mixed up, which presumably a computer generated printout would not do. It may just be the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Paul, It is a crossflow. The 1600 size is at least correct as the mecahanic that just put new rings in it said it had an 81MM bore not 83 and it took std size conrod bearings. Although the valve cover does say super sprint (which it isn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnockoff Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If a post 1992 car is going to cause you a degree of aggravation with the U.S. Authorities, I will tactfully suggest that now may be the time to stop asking any more questions re the history of your car and just enjoy the thing. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Not an issue at all Gnockoff. I do however appreciate & thank you for being concerned on my behalf.Despite the N number plate, The official papers (V5) says that it is a 1983. It was registered in Germany as a 1983 from September 2013 based on the V5 & the VIN. It was imported into the USA as a 1983 based on the VIN, V5 & German Registration, And it was issued customs papers by the US government declaring it exempt from DOT, EPA regulations. It has been registered in the USA since September 2014. I even have an official letter from Caterham to Mr. Flowers dated from 1987 thanking him for his inquiry about LCS46400R and confirmed that it is a 1983. So all the documents & VIN say 1983. In the USA everything about a car is solely based on the VIN and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's been around, your car! In the USA everything about a car is solely based on the VIN and nothing else.In your case, I guess, that's the paper-based VIN rather than anything stamped on the chassis?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Re the Northern Ireland connection I'm aware that the number of keepers resets to zero if a car is exported from mainland UK to Ireland. I wonder if it was brought back to the mainland in 1995/6 and re registered before going on it's round the world tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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