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In Car - On Car Cameras


Simon.Rogers

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I have to admit to missing this in the MSA news letter of October last year.  BUT it has a very large bearing on most of us.

"The first image was captured at a recent event and it is believed that the device – or the fixing – was not in place when the car was presented for scrutineering. This would contravene MSA Regulation (J)5.20.5. which reads: “Be prohibited from carrying cameras/ videos unless authorised by the Chief Scrutineer and Event Organiser.” The MSA Technical Department also wishes to reiterate that a suction mount is never acceptable as a primary fixing, even if there is a secondary fixing. If a camera has an acceptable mount and the competitor wishes to add a suction mount to minimise the possibility of ‘camera shake’ then that is acceptable. The second image shows another mount abouve the rain light; the aluminium bracket is acceptable but the plastic mount is not. The image also shows the competition number, which does not meet the requirements set out in MSA Regulation (J)4."

Here is the link so you can see the pictures https://www.msauk.org/assets/msanews541014.pdf

Also there is a rather long thread on Uphill Racers http://www.uphillracers.com/showthread.php/msa-camera-rules-10217.html

Lets not revisit the arguments on there.

I understand the suction cup issue and whilst the GoPro item is very good its stil difficult to argue against the rule.

What I do have issue with is the Plastic Mount terminology.  Where does the mount end and the camera start?  

From the picture in the newsletter all the GoPro guys will need new mounts but you may need a new metal case which won't be waterproof also?

For me with the Garmin Virb the mount is fantastic - but plastic - so rather than use a OEM tested and perfectly sound mount I must fabricate something which won't fit as well and will probably fall off!

I have no issue with the secondary tether either by the way.

Please keep your eyes out for a solution and hope we won't need to upgrade to a Race Keeper HDX2 !!@  £1500.00

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The GoPro roll bar mount designed for motorsports is a moulded plastic mount that screws tightly to the roll bar. I'm thinking this won't be acceptable now. The example image appears to be the GoPro flat adhesive mount stuck to an aluminium mount. I can see how this might not be seen to be acceptable though they are not easy to remove.

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Is it the plastic mount that they are not happy with or the fact the mount is 'stuck' to the aluminium bracket rather than attached by a more secure method?

Will the scrutineers be any wiser than us or will it be down to individual interpretation?

Hopefully common sense will prevail and suction cups and sticky pads will be the only limitations.

Jeff

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  • 4 weeks later...

Do the MSA have no involvement with e.g. the BTCC?

All the touring cars (and many if not all the support race cars) carry GoPros internally, all in their plastic housings and many (as far as I can see on the video I'm watching) attached via plastic extension arms.

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There's nothing in the regs that I can find that says you can't have a plastic mount for a camera. It simply says that the mount has to be specifically approved by the scrutineer. Now it might be one scrutineer's opinion that a plastic mount is unacceptable, but that's not likely to be true for the majority of scrutineers unless the MSA have issued guidance to say that - and I'm not aware of any such guidance.

If they start objecting to all cameras using plastic in their mounts, there are going to be very long queues at scrutineering this year. Especially in the series which mandate the carrying of cameras, and therefore don't have the option of just removing them.

I won't be worrying about it myself.

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Maybe - just speculating - where that PDF says "the plastic mount is not (acceptable)" it means those two specific plastic mounts, which are stuck on with double-sided sticky tape or a small amount of glue.

It might not mean plastic mounts in general. Maybe.

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Roger, It's covered by a catch all...

5.20.5. Be prohibited from carrying cameras/videos unless authorised by the Chief Scrutineer and Event Organiser.

Basically, unless the Chief Scrutineer is happy that the camera meets the guidance he is given you have no right to carry a camera... 

 

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If I take the CGRC

- the organsing club (generally) is BARC and they state that video permission is not required in their finals. So that takes care of 'organising club' for me.

- when my car is presented at scrutineering, it has the video cameras and mounts attached. The scrutineer signs my car off and gives me a ticket, often with the word 'VIDEO' on it to show that (s)he has specifically checked my cameras and mountings.

Given that, I'm happy I meet both criteria.

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