Simon.Rogers Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I have to admit to missing this in the MSA news letter of October last year. BUT it has a very large bearing on most of us."The first image was captured at a recent event and it is believed that the device – or the fixing – was not in place when the car was presented for scrutineering. This would contravene MSA Regulation (J)5.20.5. which reads: “Be prohibited from carrying cameras/ videos unless authorised by the Chief Scrutineer and Event Organiser.” The MSA Technical Department also wishes to reiterate that a suction mount is never acceptable as a primary fixing, even if there is a secondary fixing. If a camera has an acceptable mount and the competitor wishes to add a suction mount to minimise the possibility of ‘camera shake’ then that is acceptable. The second image shows another mount abouve the rain light; the aluminium bracket is acceptable but the plastic mount is not. The image also shows the competition number, which does not meet the requirements set out in MSA Regulation (J)4."Here is the link so you can see the pictures https://www.msauk.org/assets/msanews541014.pdfAlso there is a rather long thread on Uphill Racers http://www.uphillracers.com/showthread.php/msa-camera-rules-10217.htmlLets not revisit the arguments on there.I understand the suction cup issue and whilst the GoPro item is very good its stil difficult to argue against the rule.What I do have issue with is the Plastic Mount terminology. Where does the mount end and the camera start? From the picture in the newsletter all the GoPro guys will need new mounts but you may need a new metal case which won't be waterproof also?For me with the Garmin Virb the mount is fantastic - but plastic - so rather than use a OEM tested and perfectly sound mount I must fabricate something which won't fit as well and will probably fall off!I have no issue with the secondary tether either by the way.Please keep your eyes out for a solution and hope we won't need to upgrade to a Race Keeper HDX2 !!@ £1500.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S. Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I gues that rules out my Aldi one then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew mckay Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The GoPro roll bar mount designed for motorsports is a moulded plastic mount that screws tightly to the roll bar. I'm thinking this won't be acceptable now. The example image appears to be the GoPro flat adhesive mount stuck to an aluminium mount. I can see how this might not be seen to be acceptable though they are not easy to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I use an aluminium handle bar style mount from amazon together with an aluminium extension piece.Solid as rock and should comply with the current regs.The only problem I had was the red extension piece I order looked decidedly pink so was rapidly painted black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S. Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 This is PC madness, especially as a lot of us have cycle wings that are fixed on with plastic tie-wraps Come to think of it, what about the plastic bolts some use to fix the rear wings on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Is it the plastic mount that they are not happy with or the fact the mount is 'stuck' to the aluminium bracket rather than attached by a more secure method?Will the scrutineers be any wiser than us or will it be down to individual interpretation?Hopefully common sense will prevail and suction cups and sticky pads will be the only limitations.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 No Jeff its the plastic they dont like.Ali bracket with sticky pad is fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_r Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Gopro hero on offer at Halfords with extra 15% off, works out at £ 84.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Stunning that the MSA are perfectly ok with the unforgiving aluminium dagger inches from the driver's head but not with a secure 'plastic' camera mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Do the MSA have no involvement with e.g. the BTCC?All the touring cars (and many if not all the support race cars) carry GoPros internally, all in their plastic housings and many (as far as I can see on the video I'm watching) attached via plastic extension arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Are you looking at Last years footage..........Rule Change only came in this year, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Fair point. I'll be very interested to see what they do in 2015. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'll also be amused if the polycarbonate GoPro housing - which forms part of the mount - is outlawed for being "plastic", given the BTCC cars now run polycarbonate windows for safety reasons.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 There's nothing in the regs that I can find that says you can't have a plastic mount for a camera. It simply says that the mount has to be specifically approved by the scrutineer. Now it might be one scrutineer's opinion that a plastic mount is unacceptable, but that's not likely to be true for the majority of scrutineers unless the MSA have issued guidance to say that - and I'm not aware of any such guidance.If they start objecting to all cameras using plastic in their mounts, there are going to be very long queues at scrutineering this year. Especially in the series which mandate the carrying of cameras, and therefore don't have the option of just removing them.I won't be worrying about it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Rule Change only came in this yearWhat rule change are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Okay, Clarrification on security of mounts. i.e. not using suction cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Maybe - just speculating - where that PDF says "the plastic mount is not (acceptable)" it means those two specific plastic mounts, which are stuck on with double-sided sticky tape or a small amount of glue.It might not mean plastic mounts in general. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 That pdf is the official MSA news letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Yes. But it's not the regs, and they are all that count. I couldn't find anything in the 2015 Blue Book, could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Roger, It's covered by a catch all...5.20.5. Be prohibited from carrying cameras/videos unless authorised by the Chief Scrutineer and Event Organiser.Basically, unless the Chief Scrutineer is happy that the camera meets the guidance he is given you have no right to carry a camera... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If I take the CGRC- the organsing club (generally) is BARC and they state that video permission is not required in their finals. So that takes care of 'organising club' for me.- when my car is presented at scrutineering, it has the video cameras and mounts attached. The scrutineer signs my car off and gives me a ticket, often with the word 'VIDEO' on it to show that (s)he has specifically checked my cameras and mountings.Given that, I'm happy I meet both criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I would agree that the statement 'the plastic mount is not' does not mean 'no plastic mounts are acceptable'. I take it to mean that the scrutineer doesn't feel that that mount is acceptable - probably because they were in a bad mood having seen the illegal numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I'm pretty sure I saw, on the BTCC coverage from Brands at Easter, the continued use of GoPros in plastic cases and with plastic extension arms between case and mount, in at least one of the touring cars, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Scorer Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Proposed rule change is now out for consultation.https://www.msauk.org/assets/japcameraregulationproposalsv5050515.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That seems entirely reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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