gulf 1 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I have been in touch with Caterham regarding what coolant to use and they have assured me that Comma Xtreme G30 is fine to use in a K series with silicone hoses. In fact they said this is what they now put in all their new factory cars all of which now come with silicone hoses as standard.So this is what I shall be using.Thanks for all the input and I hope this has been of use to anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Good move, Dave, and well done for pursuing it. But if CC put Comma G30 into new factory-built cars, I'm left wondering why they specify Millers Alpine Red in the latest handbook? Mind you, their "first fill" fluids pack for both Duratec and Sigma includes G30.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Why would anyone give away they chemical make up of their product?Evans has now been around for excess of 20years - it was just not well marketed until they resolved the legal case against GM. Which they won and received Hundreds of millions of dollars for. It was at this point that the guy sin Swansea join the frame who happened to be experts in the Glycol used in cooling systems in buildings and heat pumps etc.I have seen the lab test centre and seen steel ball bearings in the glycol, water and many other mixes of coolant. Only the Glycol one was not corroded. I have now used the coolant for over 3 years. I drain it, strain it and put it back in. Yes I loose some but i also get no presurization.I was as sceptical as others that it was jungle juice. BUT it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Why would anyone give away they chemical make up of their product?Well, they wouldn't if they valued their market. After all, I'd estimate you could make 5 litres of your own 30/70 PG/EG mix, including additives, for about £25. All I really wanted to know is: do they use OAT additives and, if so, do these include 2-EHA? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanical Moz Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Had a bit of a read around the web on the subject of OAT coolant yesterday and basically came to the same conclusions as JV in post #22. This SAE article seemed quite useful. According to the Glysantin site G48 is a hybrid with both inorganic (silicate) and organic (2-EHA) inhibitors.There is plenty of mention on hose manufacturers websites of OAT compatibility but no evidence or mention I could find of real world failures. Silicone hoses and OAT coolant are both pretty common so if it was a big problem I'd expect it to pop up more readily.Knowing what I know now I'd happily stick either type in my car and just follow the advice to not mix them, maintain the correct level & concentration and change it at the recommended interval. I'd sway towards the OAT purely because the longer life gives a cost and hassle saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 All I really wanted to know is: do they use OAT additives and, if so, do these include 2-EHA? Well, I've just asked Evans themselves. I'll let you know what they say.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Well, I've just asked Evans themselves. I'll let you know what they say.Over two weeks have now passed, but nothing so far -- not even an acknowledgement. I've just sent them a chaser, pointing out that I plan to publish whatever they choose to tell me.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 4, 2015 Member Share Posted March 4, 2015 Good try, John. But I'm not holding my breath.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Riches Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Snake oil comes to mind, but where do the snakes come from? Edited so as not to upset Roger, I omitted the question mark. Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 5, 2015 Member Share Posted March 5, 2015 China, apparently. :-)(I don't think this is, BTW, but I do think that supporters are making claims way beyond the limited evidence available from the supplier or other sources.)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well if Evans Coolants is good enough for Honda it is good enough for me and I will be using it for my Hayabusa engined Superlight. If I have a spare litre I am quite happy to heat it in a saucepan and check the boiling point and may be some of you will then be convinced it is not snake oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 5, 2015 Member Share Posted March 5, 2015 That press release contains statements from Evans and Honda. The Evans statement includes:"Evans’ Power Cool 180, which is the choice coolant of the team, contains no water and offers an increase in performance, low pressurisation, no corrosion to engine components and eliminates boilover with a boiling point of over 180°C. The team is looking forward to working with Evans throughout the season and putting the company’s products to the ultimate test with the factory CRF450R, while aiming for victory in the MX1 World Championship series."Is there any available evidence of increased performance in any setting, absence of corrosion or reduced pressure in the cooling liquid from either Evans or any other study? If I were selling this I'd get all of those studied by an independent lab and publish the findings.Please consider the flammability before you boil it (or ethylene glycol) in a home-made set-up.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 JKDo you really think Honda will not have done any due diligence before allowing their name to be associated with a product? Any test I do will would be done outdoors however, I suspect you will not be convinced as it has not been done under laboratory conditions. I would point out I have no financial interest other than being a customer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 5, 2015 Member Share Posted March 5, 2015 I am sure that Honda have tested it and conclude that it's good enough for their needs. But they don't make any technical statement of any kind, let alone anything about superiority over alternatives.It's those unsupported claims about superiority to a mixture of water and ethylene gycol that I'm challenging.I don't understand motorsport but I'd also want to know who's paying whom in that deal.JonathanPS: We already know the boiling point of propylene glycol. It's the relevance that's under debate.PPS: I'd also be happy to use it my 7. But as it has an aluminium block I'd still change it frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well its always clear as the day it went in when I look at my header tank.Other coolants always got mucky and the crap it flushed out when we first flushed a K series 7 was frankly scary!I think you will ring KTM world enduro team also use it.Also JCB were about to spec it as new in all new plant with sealedsystems. The deal was nearly complete and then JCB had a chang e of heart. Why? They looked at the value of spares they sold in order to keep existing water based coolant plant operating!Jonathan and John Vine. If you wrote to me and asked my what my special additives were in a product I sold I certainly would not be telling you.Just because there have been many snake oil products over the years doesn't mean everything new has to be also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 If you wrote to me and asked my what my special additives were in a product I sold I certainly would not be telling you.Let's be clear -- I've not asked Evans to provide a full chemical analysis, and if I did, I would expect (just as you suggest) a polite refusal! As I indicated above, all I really want to know (and this is specifically what I've asked them) is: Do they use OAT additives/inhibitors? If so, do these include 2-EHA and/or its sodium "salt"?An update:I've just heard back from Evans. They have invited me to provide a contact phone number so that they can call to discuss. As I'm away right now, that will have to wait until I return, but I shall happily take them up on their offer. I hope they are willing to put something in writing as a result of our chat.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSedlacek Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The professionals can extract more performance from a car with high boiling temperature coolant by reducing radiator size and the associated drag. This might be what Honda do, as do all the F1 teams, but it's not going to help the average Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 6, 2015 Member Share Posted March 6, 2015 John: You're probably ahead of me on this but could you ask explicitly about hose compatibility as well as chemical composition?ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 hose compatibilityYes, definitely. That question is at the top of my list!The Honda/Evans partnership is interesting. This article states that "Honda has an extended-life OAT coolant that is dyed dark green and does not contain 2-EHA". And this article expressly states that "When Honda introduced its long-life coolant, it specifically excluded 2-EHA".Maybe the coolant specs for the Honda car engines and the CRF450R bike engine are different, but I'm now curious to know whether Power-Cool 180 contains 2-EHA. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesG Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I've used Evans in my K engine with classic black silicon hoses, no heater, and that other Devil's product; a plastic-capped CC radiator for 2 years now. All is well.But what works for me may not work for others.All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Back to the original post - I have always used the recommended red anti freeze and changed to silicon hoses a couple of years ago or so. Today I changed my thermostat and noticed that the inside of my yellow hoses are 'stained' red by the anti freeze, presumably because the red in the anti freeze is a dye. I noticed no obvious signs of 'damage' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 16, 2015 Member Share Posted March 16, 2015 interesting. My silcone hoses have a blue inner layer. Were yours originally yellow throughout?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Yes, yellow throughout, bought via the bulk buy a few years back.The top inner part is an area that was on the lower radiator pipe, hence not exposed to the fluid, and shows original colour.The red colour is not a 'film', ie it didn't wipe off, it's definately stained the hose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I've just heard back from Evans. They have invited me to provide a contact phone number so that they can call to discussWell, I had a long chat yesterday with a charming gentleman from Evans (UK). In summary: Evans do not use OAT inhibitors (including 2-EHA) in their waterless coolants, due to the need for solubility in non-aqueous solvents He was unable to say (for IP and commercial reasons) what inhibitors they did use, but explained that the formulation differed according to the type of engine the coolant was designed for For old engines (with a high brass/copper/iron content) he recommended Vintage Cool, provided that the engine has a coolant pump (that is, not a thermo-siphon design) to cope with the higher viscosity Evans coolants are fully compatible with, and do not harm, silicone hoses, seals etc (claim based on extensive testing)JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now