K series running issues / possible misfire?

[CharlesElliott]

We're waiting....

[revilla]

With baited breath ...

[Smithy77]

Evening all!

 

So I plugged in my new D900 OBD2 scanner and can reveal to following results (cue drum roll!!!!):

 

Fault codes - This scanner flagged the same 3 codes as the previous scanner, however, where the old one showed fault 1 as "N/A", this scanner actually gave a manufacturer specific code:

 

1) P1590 (undefined)

2) P0195 (Engine oil temp sensor)

3) P0135 (O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)

 

I did a google search of fault 1 but was inconclusive. A website talking about a Haltech ECUs mentions "Electronic Throttle 1 Throttle Position Sensor 1 Voltage Mismatch", where as a website talking about Land Rovers talking about ABS. When referring to the scanner instructions about DTCs and deciphering the code, the "5" in the code suggests it relates to the Vehicle speed control and Idle control system. I guess being a manufacturer specific code it could vary from one manufacturer to the next?

 

So now for the serious stuff - the live data! I'm just going to throw the whole lot at you just in case someone can spot something I can't:

 

Sensor // Off // Cold // Hot

Fuel sys 1 // 0L // 0L // CL Fault

Fuel sys 2 // 0 // 0 // 0

Calc load // 0% // 5.88 ~ 6.27% // 3.13%

Coolant temp // 13C // 21C // 92C

STFT B1 // 0% // -2 ~ 7% // -1.5 ~ 3.1%

LTFT B1 // 0% // -5.4 ~ 7% // -7.82 ~ -7.0%

M.A.P // 100Kpa // 52Kpa // 48Kpa

Eng. speed // 0RPM // 1150 ~ 1200RPM // 900 ~ 1000RPM

Veh. speed // 0Km/h // 0Km/h // 0Km/h

Spark adv. // 5.0 BTDC // 5 ~ 17 BTDC // 6 ~ 18 BTDC

I.A.T // 12C // 14C // 29C

TPS // 3.92% // 4.7% // 3.92%

O2SL // 1112 // 1112 // 1112

O2S 11 // 0.38V // 0.33 ~ 0.8V // 0.2 ~ 0.86V

SHRTFT 11 // 0.0% // -5 ~ 0.5% // -2.3 ~ 2.34%

O2S 12 // 0.465 ~ 0.475V // 0.475V // 0.475V

SHRTFT 12 // 99.21% // 99.21% // 99.21%

 

Further comments on the above:

- I tested the TPS with the engine off and it seemed to show data reflective of throttle position, giving a maximum figure of 90.5%, or 92.94% with a firmer press.

- The "CL Fault" recorded for "Fuel sys 1" is an odd one. It read 0L with the engine first started, it took a couple of minutes to scroll through the other sensors and by the time I got back to the top of the list it read CL Fault!

- I didn't test any sensors while revving due to neighbours and it was getting dark, but if it is worth it, let me know what to test and I'll do it at the next opportunity.

- I ran the engine for some time and wanted to hear the fan kick in (something I am yet to see/hear). It got to 90C and seemed to stabilise, to I took the hot readings. After this the temp crept up to 92C and still no fan and I switched off - is this something to be concerned of, or can it get hotter before engaging the fan?

 

So what can you all glean from the above??

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 22 Apr 2014 22:51:07

[revilla]

Fuel System 1 is telling you whether the system is running "Open Loop" (OL) or "Closed Loop" (CL) - I would expect it to run initially OL then switch to CL - the fact that it switches to "CL Fault" just seems to confirm that you have a Lambda Sensor fault as per the DTC codes.

 

I'm not going to fire up mine for comparison tonight but from memory those MAP values look odd (assuming they were taken with the engine idling) - maybe someone else can confirm - 100 Kpa is approximately normal atmospheric pressure (101.325 Kpa is 1 "standard atmosphere") so sounds right for engine off, but I would expect much more of a vacuum in the manifold at idle, so lower numbers (less than 30 Kpa). I may be wrong. If the MAP sensor is playing up it could well give hesitation symptoms. If the readings weren't at idle, ignore what I just said.

 

I'm not sure if it could be a vacuum leak rather than a sensor fault, or whether that would just make it rev up as though the throttle were partially open. I'm not sure what the ECU would make of air flow into the manifold and reduced manifold vacuum with the TPS saying throttle was closed. Can you hear any odd whistles or other funny noises that might suggest air being sucked in around the manifold area?

 

I'm away from tomorrow morning until Friday evening so might not get a chance to get you any comparative figures. In the meantime, when my bag of bits arrives, I would try swapping the lambda sensor and the MAP sensor and see what happens. If you swap the MAP sensor and still get MAP readings over 40 Kpa then there must be something amiss causing reduced manifold vacuum. There's an IACV in the bag too - I guess a fault here could give an effective manifold leak as CharlesElliott suggested earlier.

 

I'll try to keep my eye on this thread from my mobile.

 

Edited to add that the IAT rising to 29C seems unlikely too - seems a bit unlikely the air it was breathing in would be that warm tonight, especially if you had the bonnet off as I suspect - and it's a combined sensor with the MAP - not sure what to make of that but just seems to make me suspect that sensor even more.

 

Edited by - revilla on 22 Apr 2014 23:45:58

[revilla]

OK just looked a few bits before I fall asleep. 50 Kpa MAP is too high at idle, correct figure should be around 35 Kpa on a K Series. Swap the lambda sensor as we have two indications that this is faulty. Also swap the MAP sensor to see if it is a sensor problem or a real problem with the manifold pressure. If this fixes it, job done. If you still get high (more than 40 Kpa) MAP at idle, try swapping the IACV and have a very good look at any little rubber pipes that join onto the aluminium manifold at the front near the MAP sensor (thin pipes about the diameter of a pencil, not the fat breather tubes that join on near the throttle). There will probably be one short one that connects to the fuel pressure regulator, and there may be another rubber cap sealing off an adjacent brass tube where another pipe could be attached. Make sure none of these are split, loose or disconnected, allowing an air leak. If still no joy, one thing that can cause raised idle MAP is the cam belt having slipped one tooth around a pulley giving improper valve timing but this sounds unlikely to have just happened if it was running well (I think it is more common to find that the belt was fitted out of line rather than that it has slipped). My bag of bits should reach you in the next day or two and has spares of all the bits you need in it. Let us know how you get on.

 

PS: My fan kicks in 94-95C - In normal driving the air flow over the radiator should be sufficient to keep the temperature under control without the fan. The fan will kick in for example in traffic jams where there is no air flow to cool the radiator. I suspect that in the cool evening air the radiator was working well enough the keep it just below the fan operating temperature. Or maybe you just didn't wait quite long enough :)

 

Edited by - revilla on 23 Apr 2014 00:30:36

[revilla]

Me again ... Sorry I might be on a red herring ... Getting to the limit of what I know here as my engine is quite different to yours in terms of cams and valves (being a VVC). It appears that the "bigger" camshafts in your engine will probably lead to a weaker manifold vacuum, so it may not be particularly abnormal.

[Smithy77]

Revilla, thanks for the response; prompt, educational & succinct as always I feel like I've learnt so much in these couple of weeks - every cloud has a silver lining

 

It's good that these results are pointing towards one or two potential causes. I will now await your bag of bits with anticipation...

 

To answer some of your points in the meantime:

1. Yes, all the readings were done either with engine off/ignition on or with the engine at idle.

2. So it would appear that I definitely have a duff lambda sensor, and potentially a duff MAP sensor. I think it was discussed earlier in the thread that a duff lambda alone wouldn't be the single cause of my cold start/running issue as the engine will be closed loop at this stage. Therefore safe to assume that there should be something else playing up also, either the MAP sensor or something else?

3. The hot I.A.T reading of 29C was indeed taken with the bonnet off, adding weight to the MAP sensor idea as you suggest.

3. I will start by swapping the MAP sensor and checking the live data. If no change then I'll look at the vacuum pipes and IACV and listen out for any sucky noises. As you say, would be good to find out what the MAP reading should be for my engine - I'm having no luck on Google, but what I have found seems to suggest something around the 30kPa mark is normal for idle, generically speaking.

4. Just on the IACV, someone mentioned that when refitting you should use silicone grease on the o-ring against the manifold. After cleaning my IACV I went to Halfrauds to try and find some but all I could find was silicone lubricant (in a spray can) and your usual array of other greases (regular, copper etc). Is silicone grease something different? I used a smear of regular grease instead...

5. Thanks for the peace of mind regarding the rad fan. From reading previous posts I assumed the switch on point for the fan was closer to 90C, and the engine was running for a good 15mins or so. I've become a little paranoid with the cooling system of the k-series, what with the infamous issues I've read plenty about

6. I struggle to understand the theory about bigger camshafts = weaker manifold vacuum. My understanding (which is quite possibly wrong!) is that with bigger cams the valves get opened wider; I would have thought, therefore, this would lead to a greater 'sucking' or induction force for a given throttle position, and therefore lead to a higher vacuum or lower pressure?

 

Edited to say I've just found this, which backs up your theory on manifold vacuum:

"A stock car will show more 'vacuum' than a car with a massive lopey camshaft.

With the car off, the MAP sensor reads the barometric pressure within the manifold. This will change depending on your altitude. Here in Kansas City, my barometric readings are typically around 29.5"Hg. [29.5 / .2953] = 99.9 kPa

With the car running, again, it really depends on your setup. On a stock car, the idle MAP readings might be around 10"Hg (33.86kPa). A highly modified car might see 20"Hg (67.73kPa) at idle."

 

Hope you have a good trip away. I have plenty to get on with

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 23 Apr 2014 12:03:34

[CharlesElliott]

As said, I think you start by replacing the lambda.

 

Because the IACV doesn't have a reading and ultimately lets air into the inlet, it is more difficult to diagnose.

[Smithy77]

Thanks, Charles.

 

I forgot to ask, can anyone shed any light in the non-generic DTC of P1590?

[Roger Ford]

Quoting Smiffy7: 

1) P1590 (undefined)

2) P0195 (Engine oil temp sensor)

3) P0135 (O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)

 

I did a google search of fault 1 but was inconclusive. A website talking about a Haltech ECUs mentions "Electronic Throttle 1 Throttle Position Sensor 1 Voltage Mismatch", where as a website talking about Land Rovers talking about ABS. 07

 

Did you find this thread? While it also mentions ABS and front wheel speed sensors, there is a paragraph which says:

 

There is a feed for the tachometer from the MEMS ECU, which is averaged across all cylinders in case of variable spark timing so if the car is misfiring (which it is once warm), the odd reading to the MEMS ECU may be triggering the P1590 error.

 

[Token Jock]

Quoting Smiffy7: 

Fault codes - This scanner flagged the same 3 codes as the previous scanner,

1) P1590 (undefined)

2) P0195 (Engine oil temp sensor)

3) P0135 (O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)

 

I had a Superlight K-series with MEMS 3 which ran very rough on warm up and would often stall. Once it was warm it was absolutely fine. It also showed a P0135 code.

 

I changed the lambda sensor and it was no different, I checked all my wiring at the ECU, TPS voltage, earth points etc etc but still no change to how the car behaved.

 

I deduced that the engine was switching to closed loop and because the lambda heater circuit wasn't operating and the engine was running too lean.

 

I was fortunate to know a guy who had some friends who were involved with MG Rover on engine calibration and they told me that Caterham didn't spend any time on engine calibration of the Supersport engine configuration, relying on MG's mapping upto around 4000rpm. The mapping calibration was carried out to take into account the revised cams and elevated rev limit of the Supersport engine configuration

They further added that with the cams and exhaust set up the lambda sesnor could be operating outside its range which would affect its operation.

 

I was lucky that they had software that could look at the MEMS mapping and see what was happening when the egine was running.

 

In my case it was established that the engine was operating correctly when warm but was switching to closed loop when the coolant temp was 20c and was running lean however the lambda sensor was working correctly within range.

 

The solution/workaround was to increase the temperature that the engine switched over to closed loop, think we increased it to 60c and since then the car has been perfect on warm-up with no stumbling/stalling.

 

Don't know if this helps but wanted to share my experience of chasing a P0135 fault code.

 

Hope you get it fixed.

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Token Jock on 23 Apr 2014 14:02:18

[evotell]

This is a fascinating post that truly reveals the depth of knowledge that many of our members have and reinforces the commitment to help each other out.

 

I have noticed a rather loud sucking noise I assume its coming from the manifold intake area on a very light throttle on a 1.4 K series, the car runs smoothly, doesn't hesitate, stall or appear to lack power. Any suggestions on what this may be.

[revilla]

As I understand it: Typical text book descriptions of four stroke engines show the inlet valve open during the induction stroke and the exhaust valve open during the exhaust stroke. This however neglects effects such as the inertia of the gasses which means that at high RPM it leads to poor filing and emptying of the cylinders. The gases take a while to get flowing after the valve opens and at high RPM there is less time available. In reality therefore the valves open earlier and close later and even overlap so that for a short time both are open together. The inertia of the gas and fluid dynamic effects ensure that gas is mainly drawn in through the inlet valve and blown out through the exhaust valve during the overlap. Compare it with a two stroke engine in which both inlet and exhaust ports open simultaneously. In a highly tuned engine designed to produce more power at higher RPM the overlap will be greater. This means it is more reliant on the gas inertia and at low RPM where the gases move more slowly it no longer works so well; for a portion of the induction stroke the exhaust valve is open and if the engine starts to pull gas back in through the exhaust valve it basically constitutes a leak and reduces the extent to which it draws gas in from the manifold and creates manifold vacuum. Similarly it may try to push some gas back through the inlet valve during the exhaust stroke.

[revilla]

@evotell - Just sounds like the normal sucking of air past the mostly closed throttle and through the IACV. If everything else is fine I wouldn't worry about it! Due to the lack of soundproofing on a Caterham you hear every little sound the engine makes, and all the normal noises sound abnormally loud :)

[evotell]

Quoting revilla: 

@evotell - Just sounds like the normal sucking of air past the mostly closed throttle and through the IACV. If everything else is fine I wouldn't worry about it! Due to the lack of soundproofing on a Caterham you hear every little sound the engine makes, and all the normal noises sound abnormally loud :)

 

Thanks

[Smithy77]

Quoting Roger Ford: 

Quoting Smiffy7: 

1) P1590 (undefined)

2) P0195 (Engine oil temp sensor)

3) P0135 (O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)

 

I did a google search of fault 1 but was inconclusive. A website talking about a Haltech ECUs mentions "Electronic Throttle 1 Throttle Position Sensor 1 Voltage Mismatch", where as a website talking about Land Rovers talking about ABS. 07

 

Did you find this thread? While it also mentions ABS and front wheel speed sensors, there is a paragraph which says:

 

There is a feed for the tachometer from the MEMS ECU, which is averaged across all cylinders in case of variable spark timing so if the car is misfiring (which it is once warm), the odd reading to the MEMS ECU may be triggering the P1590 error.

 

Roger, thanks for the research. I think this is something to look into once either I get the engine running sweet and the code remains, or this current trail of thought comes to an end without fixing it. I can just feel revilla reading and thinking "one step at a time good boy" 😬

 

Quoting revilla: 

As I understand it: Typical text book descriptions of four stroke engines show the inlet valve open during the induction stroke and the exhaust valve open during the exhaust stroke. This however neglects effects such as the inertia of the gasses which means that at high RPM it leads to poor filing and emptying of the cylinders. The gases take a while to get flowing after the valve opens and at high RPM there is less time available. In reality therefore the valves open earlier and close later and even overlap so that for a short time both are open together. The inertia of the gas and fluid dynamic effects ensure that gas is mainly drawn in through the inlet valve and blown out through the exhaust valve during the overlap. Compare it with a two stroke engine in which both inlet and exhaust ports open simultaneously. In a highly tuned engine designed to produce more power at higher RPM the overlap will be greater. This means it is more reliant on the gas inertia and at low RPM where the gases move more slowly it no longer works so well; for a portion of the induction stroke the exhaust valve is open and if the engine starts to pull gas back in through the exhaust valve it basically constitutes a leak and reduces the extent to which it draws gas in from the manifold and creates manifold vacuum. Similarly it may try to push some gas back through the inlet valve during the exhaust stroke.

 

Fascinating insight - I knew I was missing something! 😬 That really explains well the whole concept behind variable valve timing, or a VVC engine.

 

@Token Jack - Thanks for sharing your experience. I just hope mine doesn't turn out to be as complicated... Funny you mention engine calibration of the Supersport engine configuration; I've read (from DVA) that you can get quite a nice improvement in drivability and mid-range torque with a set of properly set up vernier pulleys - this was probably going to be my first and only (he says!) engine upgrade when I get round to doing the cam belt If anyone has done this upgrade to a supersport I would love to hear your experience of them

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 23 Apr 2014 16:59:27

[Token Jock]

Quoting Smiffy7: 

 

@Token Jack - Thanks for sharing your experience. I just hope mine doesn't turn out to be as complicated... Funny you mention engine calibration of the Supersport engine configuration; I've read (from DVA) that you can get quite a nice improvement in drivability and mid-range torque with a set of properly set up vernier pulleys - this was probably going to be my first and only (he says!) engine upgrade when I get round to doing the cam belt If anyone has done this upgrade to a supersport I would love to hear your experience of them

 

No problem

 

DVA fitted a set of verniers to my Superlight and coupled with a remap from Z&F Tuning (which sorted the rough running issue) the engine is stronger in the midrange, throttle response has improved, all round a much more tractable and responsive engine.

You won't find many folk on here saying not to bother getting your cams correctly timed using a set of vernier pulleys.

 

I don't have any issues meeting the MOT emissions test once the cat is properly upto temperature.

 

John

[Smithy77]

@Token Jock - verniers will definitely be something I'll be doing soon then. Is a re-map always necessary with re-timed cams?

 

Back to the topic of the thread.... last night I was able to try out various spare sensors having received the bag of goodies (thanks revilla ) and it was a bit of a mixed success. What probably would have helped the situation, and what might have made the testing of each sensor more logical, would have been to know the answer to this hypothetical question - when changing a sensor, and assuming that sensor is causing the problem, should the improvement in running be instant, or does it need time for the ECU to readjust? If so, how long?

 

Before going into the details it's probably worth reminding us of the symptoms we have narrowed our focus on:

1. Poor starting (time needed to crank over and success rate of firing up)

2. Poor running when cold

3. Possibly running a bit rich at times (possibly a red herring)

4. Lack of top-end performance

 

So I started off by swapping the lambda sensor. One thing which I found peculiar was that the new sensor I was fitting was coated in black soot, but the original one I removed was coated in a very pale browney/grey soot - is this a telling sign of something?

 

I then also swapped over the MAP sensor before plugging in the OBD2 scanner, clearing the old DTCs and re-scanning and viewing live data. With the engine off there was obviously very little change. M.A.P was up to 101kPa from 100kPa previously and the O2S 11 was up to 0.57V from 0.38V (presumably this reading is something to do with the lambda??).

 

I started the engine and it seemed the same as before - long crank time, a little bit of a cough before resuming a fast idle. I then did a quick check of the live data and again not too much different from before. The M.A.P was reading about 53kPa, up from 52kPa previously, and then settled at 50/51kPa once idle slowed a bit. So appart from reading 1-2kPa higher than the old one the MAP sensor is reading the same - a sign this sensor was OK?

 

The O2S 11 appeared to be at a more steady 0.8V, where as before it was fluctuating from 0.3-0.8V. I suppose the biggest disappoint of this diagnosis was that fact that Fuel sys 1 still reported a CL fault at this stage, and I still had the same 3 DTCs as before.

 

Before going for a drive I switched her off and went in for some dinner to give the engine a chance to cool down again. So belly full I went out and took it for a quick spin. Driving out of my close it was still very much a case of poor cold running, very jumpy in 2nd gear. Thinking the problem was not solved I just drove 100 yards up the main road before turning back home.

 

I then turned my attention to the IACV. When I looked at the spare sensor I noticed the rubber o-ring was very snugly fit within the round recess, however, on my sensor the o-ring was noticeably larger (in thickness, not overall diameter) which meant it didn't quite fit in the recess as snugly. This meant when fitted, the plastic flange of the sensor was not matted flush against the aluminium manifold - there was almost a 1mm gap between the sensor flange and the manifold. If this needs to be an airtight matting then this might have been causing issues? Anyway, new IACV fitted and I went to start her up but just got a bit of a cough before dying. Tried about 6 times with more or less the same result each time. Gave it a dab of throttle and she fired up fine. It seemed to run much as before, OK, but the engine was fairly warm at this point.

 

I then switched of and fitted a new TPS. This time it re-started just fine, however, it then also wanted to idle at about 2000RPM. Switched off and tried the TPS resetting procedure (both versions claimed to be for the EU2 & EU3 engines respectively). Started fine but, although not as erratic, idle still seemed on the high side. I had another check of the scanner and it was much the same as before with the CL fault and the same 3 DTCs as before.

 

At this point I had 4 new sensors fitted not really knowing which, if any, had made any difference, and I was ready for a decent drive over to a mates house - 30mins each way route with a mixture of roads. The drive out of my close was a lot smoother, but the engine was partly up to temp so not really a fair test. Once I got 30 seconds down the road the idling issue seemed to have gone away. When out on the open road I have to say it felt like it had got a bit of its punch back in the top end. It's hard to tell how much of that is psychological - it was dark, chilly, by myself and not having driven it in two weeks.... one might think in these conditions it might have felt deceptively quicker? It felt good though.

 

When it came to leaving my mates the engine started OK first time, although needed the usual 3-4seconds cranking. I should point out at this point it was gone 11pm in a quiet culdesac so I wanted to leave as quickly and as discretely as possible. This meant no stationary warm up time and trying to drive off quietly 30secs after starting the stone cold engine. It drove like a complete dog to the end of the culdesac! I was obviously trying to keep revs low, but in doing so it kept trying to stall. I ended up coasting to the end of the road. Having not normally set off like this before it was an unfair test, and I would probably put this down as normal behavior given the conditions. My old Clio 172, which had fast road cams, would do exactly the same in the same conditions, albeit perhaps not so brutally bad. Once I got down the road and the engine was able to get above 2000RPM she really did seem to drive well again.

 

So I'm not really sure what to make of all this, and its hard for me to say if the problem is completely fixed, although it seems some good has come of it. Would love to hear the thoughts of the experts...?

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 25 Apr 2014 11:19:50

[revilla]

Pete,

 

Glad the bits arrived and you had a chance to play around.

 

Ignore the colour of the lambda sensor; yours sounds "right", mine would be the one to worry about, but it's off the spare engine which sits on a trolley and is only run occasionally, and then only just warms up to temperature and never gets a good hard run like a road engine would. I think it's generally showing signs of running a bit rich just because it spends most of it's time below temperature.

 

I still think there is something wrong around the lambda sensor area; I don't think it should be giving those DTC codes. If swapping the sensor hasn't fixed it, it sounds like it comes down to wiring, connectors or a problem with the ECU itself. Trying to talk you through diagnosing those over the internet will be very difficult. It needs someone with a multimiter to crawl over the wiring checking everything against the wiring diagram.

 

On problem is that I think I'm at or beyond the limit of knowledge of what is and isn't normal for engine in your state of tune. I'm a bit spoiled I guess with a VVC at it gives be somewhere around 170bhp without any of the characteristics of a tuned engine, so it starts easily, idles smoothly, pulls well from 1500rpm even when cold and drives like Ford Fiesta in town traffic etc. I don't know whether some of the things you are describing are normal with your setup - and to be quite honest I don't think you do either. I think at this stage the car needs to be looked at by someone who has experience of a similarly tuned car and who can actually drive it and tell you how it compares.

 

Given that the plugs are the right colour, the lambda sensor is the right colour and even though logging a fault the output voltage from the lambda sensor seems to be cycling over the correct voltages, I would say the mixture must be about right most of the time and I don't think you are going to put the engine at great risk by driving it reasonably gently to somewhere to get it looked at. You already have an offer of help on here from CharlesElliott so it may be worth taking him up on that, or driving to a local Seven specialist for evaluation (I've no idea who woul;d be good in your neck of the woods).

 

Sorry I can't offer much more useful advice, it really would have been nice to track the fault down on here but I'm running out of ideas, so unless someone else wants to chip in with things of I haven't thought of, I think it's time to get it looked at by someone.

 

Keep us informed, and if you could let me have any spare bits back once you've sorted it that would be greate, but no massive rush at the moment.

[Smithy77]

Revilla, thanks again for the prompt reply. For what it's worth I will try clearing the DTCs a re-scanning after the long drive last night in the hope that decent running time might have cleared something up...

 

Edit: While driving along the motorway cruising at 70-80mph I had the scanner plugged in and I noticed that coolant temp was at constant 90/91C while the gauge was reading 80C - sound normal?

 

Your absolutely right though, I don't know if any of these symptoms are normal, only that some of them seemed to have cropped up or got worse since first picking it up. This is my first Caterham, first k-series engine, and first tuned non-VVT engine. I've not got much relevant experience to compare against to be honest

 

Thanks for your priceless help to date, it's been VERY much appreciated and you've taught me a lot I will of course send you back the bits ASAP.

 

Quoting CharlesElliott: 

If you can drive to Weybridge, I can take a look and have all the diag equipment 😬

Charles, how very generous of you! Are you still able to offer some further help? Do you have much experience of the 1.6K supersport engine?

 

The other option I have is Tom New of New Techniques, a specialist in engine tuning who is familiar with Caterhams and the k-series. I think he is the recommended specialist for local seven owners, and only 30 mins drive from me.

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 25 Apr 2014 12:26:28

[Superwhite R283]

You're more than welcom to plug your device into mine and compare readings 😳 but mine is a standard 1.6 so not sure if that's of much use.

 

Tom knows his stuff and get a from me.

[Smithy77]

Daz, YHM!

[oldbutnotslow]

Without me having trawled through all the posts can I ask if you have had the cam timing checked?

Lack of power at the top end and poor running Mmmm. If not its probably worth getting the lift at TDC on No1 cylinder on the non firing stroke (valves just opening and closing) measured.

 

The accepted range is

Inlet 60oo Exhaust 40oo

Mid 70oo 50oo

upper 80oo 60oo

Standard pulleys can almost be a tooth out even when set properly never mind if the belt has been fitted incorrectly in the past.

 

Sorry for being lazy if you have already covered this ground 😳

[c7trp]

can I ask if you have had the cam timing checked?

 

I'm thinking the same thing from the symptoms you describe.

 

My standard 1.8k wasn't keen to tick over when the valve overlap was at the maximum.

 

Easy to check if you have standard pulleys.

 

Edited by - c7trp on 25 Apr 2014 20:41:35

[Smithy77]

All is not lost folks....

 

Tonight when I got home I decided to plug in my OBD2 scanner, clear the old DTCs and run the engine from cold up to temp on the driveway observing the new scan and live data. It has been mentioned that the ECU can develop 'bad habits' after periods of poor running and can take a bit of time to clear, so I was hoping the hour drive last night might have done something. I made some observations which may change the perspectives of those concerned....

 

1. First of all it started first time, although it still took 3-4secs of cranking. However, as soon as it started it immediately settled to a fast but very smooth idle. Don't get me wrong it had lumpy nature to it but it was definitely the smoothest it has idled from cold for a while. It wasn't 'rough' as it was before.

 

2. The next thing to note was the DTCs. Previously I have always had 3 codes come up being:

i) P1590 (undefined)

ii) P0195 (Engine oil temp sensor)

iii) P0135 (O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)

Now all of a sudden the first code doesn't seem to be present! P0195 and P0135 still cropped up (albeit only with a 'pending' status, whatever that tells us?), which is disappointing, but with P1590 gone surely this means we are making progress? This is a manufacturer specific code which no one was able to define, but we have had ideas from "Electronic Throttle 1 Throttle Position Sensor 1 Voltage Mismatch", to misfire to ABS.

 

3. The last noticeable change I noticed was the reading from the I.A.T sensor. Previously, it gave a reading of 12C (off), 14C (cold) and 29C (hot) - the reading of 29C hot was noted as slightly odd by revilla. Well tonight the readings were 12C (off), 14C (cold) and 16C(hot). A sign that the MAP sensor was faulty after all?

 

So some more positive signs I feel, hopefully the experts can verify the positiveness of them? But what I thought was most significant was how much smoother it seemed to be running. Shame we still have 2 fault codes...

 

Edited by - Smiffy7 on 25 Apr 2014 22:02:50