Caterham R500 Build - Progress Update or is it?

[evotell]

One of the elements of Leadership is taking initiative, so rather than wait for CC to get the ball rolling (they probably wont) why don't we as a club invite them to a consultation to discus some of the issues that our members are experiencing?

 

In the end complaining to each other wont change a thing, surely the correct way forward to set up dialog with CC.

 

 

Edited by - evotell on 11 Apr 2014 04:49:45

[SLR No.77]

Quoting evotell: 

why don't we as a club invite them to a consultation to discus some of the issues that our members are experiencing?

IIRC it's already been done, around 6 or 7 years ago. I don't want to seem negative, but a search will reveal that the same problems appear over and over again.

 

Stu.

[johnv]

I think maybe a link to this should be posted on pistonheads or somewhere - no-one should really consider parting with that sort of money for an R500 kit before Caterham can convince them that these problems have been addressed, it's really quite scandelous

[Guest]

Quoting johnv: 

I think maybe a link to this should be posted on pistonheads or somewhere - no-one should really consider parting with that sort of money for an R500 kit before Caterham can convince them that these problems have been addressed, it's really quite scandelous

Agreed, but... An R500 isn't usually available in kit form (I had to practically beg) - however, the issues aren't really specific to an R500 (fuel pump aside, but this would be the case if I'd ordered it factory built anyway - I guess 😔).

 

I'll post back with what happens when Dean Francis calls me this morning.

[OliW]

I would be interested to hear what they say, as would most.

 

Thanks!

Oli

[the.vet]

Time to quote the SOGA:

 

"For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances."

 

Good luck getting out of your mess. Would push for compensation for all the additional items you have paid for during the build - tools etc.

 

[andy21]

Good luck lots of people here are interested in the outcome.

[John Vine]

Quoting sforshaw: 

Quoting evotell: 

why don't we as a club invite them to a consultation to discus some of the issues that our members are experiencing?

IIRC it's already been done, around 6 or 7 years ago. I don't want to seem negative, but a search will reveal that the same problems appear over and over again.

 

Stu.

I think that's a very constructive suggestion, especially bearing in mind that ownership, management and a lot of CC staff have changed over that period. Having built two sevens over the years, I feel I could contribute some experiences (good and bad). I seem to recall a "feedback" initiative about three years or so ago. I volunteered to contribute, but heard nothing more. In fact, I heard nothing more of the scheme at all.

 

From my POV, the interesting thing is that my first kit (1999) had only minor shortages, and they were fixed quickly. My second kit (2008) had serious shortages from Day 1, meaning that I could not assemble the car in the recommended sequence or to my preferred schedule. Even delivery was delayed by a week or two because the plenum was out of stock. Is that typical? It seems so.

 

If I were auditing the factory, I'd be concentrating on:

 

Supply-chain management

Purchasing (order quantities/price, stock control, quality assurance)

Production control (scheduling, just in time v. just too late, post-production review)

Communications (customer complaints, status updates)

 

I suspect an analysis of production efficiency v. supply problems would be most revealing. Maybe CC suffer unduly from the supply problems typically associated with small companies and (relatively) tiny orders.

 

JV

 

 

[I reply to every thread]

All this reminds me of dear old Jamie Jones' encounter with the factory when he was told that if he wanted customer service, reliability & quality he should have bought a Ford Focus (I may be misquoting slightly),

That must have been 10 -12 years ago.

[Guest]

Firstly and thanks to everyone's feedback and sympathetic responses...

I've had the smooth over call from Dean Francis at Midlands and rather than re-type everything, it's all on the blog

http://www.caterhamr500.co.uk

I'll be happy to answer any questions on here or posted on the blog.

 

Cheers.

[Klunk]

Looks like things are starting to happen. Just a shame, as you say, that it has had to get this far. Why have they not explained the internal changes before this time? At least expectations could be managed.

 

Hope all goes to plan and that you have sparked a logistics revolution within Caterham. Modifications to standard items really should be done in house to eliminate this kind of problem. Outsourcing everything just means you loose control unless you impose tight rules and fines on suppliers.

 

Giles

[evotell]

His answer that these problems are being caused by a a change in structure at CTI is BS, 😳 these problems have been around long before CTI ever existed. What will the next excuse be.

 

[James.S]

Pleased to see thing appear to be moving in the direction you want. It will be worth it in the end.

 

I have had massive issues over the years with CC parts but, I have to say that it always gets sorted, there are some top people down there who share a passion for the car. The main problem they have is they need to achieve minimum quantities for many things they supply such as wheels etc and frankly their orders are tiny in the automotive industry. It is not fair to compare them to a mainline supplier. My last issue was for rear 13" rims i wanted 4, no stock and minimum order to KN wheels was 50. Thats a lot of stock for a small company to hold.

 

Certain things the club does doesn't help either, bulk buys, recommendations away from CC - in no way assists a small manufacturer - love or loathe CC, if we lose them we will all be poorer.

 

Back on topic - RR, trust me - this will be one of, if not the best car you will ever own. Mine all have - now i want another.

[OliW]

Quoting James.S: 

It is not fair to compare them to a mainline supplier. My last issue was for rear 13" rims i wanted 4, no stock and minimum order to KN wheels was 50. Thats a lot of stock for a small company to hold.

 

Certain things the club does doesn't help either, bulk buys, recommendations away from CC - in no way assists a small manufacturer - love or loathe CC, if we lose them we will all be poorer.

 

In my view it is fair, because Caterham charge a premium for their product and market themselves as being a premium brand. Being a small company does not mean you can be inadequate in certain parts of your business. They ought to hold more stock than they do - it is clear that there is more demand for parts than they can cope with and their stock would not become obsolete if it was sat around for a short period.

 

The club's activities are irrelevant. Market forces dictate whether people go to Caterham. It's for Caterham to attract people to buy. And most bulk buys etc are not for products that CC sell.

 

Oli

[evotell]

Quoting OliW: 

Quoting James.S: 

It is not fair to compare them to a mainline supplier. My last issue was for rear 13" rims i wanted 4, no stock and minimum order to KN wheels was 50. Thats a lot of stock for a small company to hold.

 

Certain things the club does doesn't help either, bulk buys, recommendations away from CC - in no way assists a small manufacturer - love or loathe CC, if we lose them we will all be poorer.

 

In my view it is fair, because Caterham charge a premium for their product and market themselves as being a premium brand. Being a small company does not mean you can be inadequate in certain parts of your business. They ought to hold more stock than they do - it is clear that there is more demand for parts than they can cope with and their stock would not become obsolete if it was sat around for a short period.

 

The club's activities are irrelevant. Market forces dictate whether people go to Caterham. It's for Caterham to attract people to buy. And most bulk buys etc are not for products that CC sell.

 

Oli

 

Agreed 😬

[Martin J]

Glad to hear Dean is on the case & they are hopefully getting somewhere.

What a pain over this pump, it begs the question.....if you are an existing R500D owner & your fuel pump packs up you are stuffed.

[Guest]

Quoting evotell: 

His answer that these problems are being caused by a a change in structure at CTI is BS, 😳 these problems have been around long before CTI ever existed. What will the next excuse be.

The fact that CTi are now involved isn't what he said was the fundamental of the problem - he said they are there now to help streamline these processes, supply chain, parts ordering and so on....

[Guest]

Quoting evotell: 

Agreed 😬

I'll +1 your agreement of OliW's post.

 

Edited by - Roadracer1977 on 11 Apr 2014 13:59:22

[evotell]

Quoting Roadracer1977: 

Quoting evotell: 

His answer that these problems are being caused by a a change in structure at CTI is BS, 😳 these problems have been around long before CTI ever existed. What will the next excuse be.

The fact that CTi are now involved isn't what he said was the fundamental of the problem - he said they are there now to help streamline these processes, supply chain, parts ordering and so on....

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I for one would be far more tolerate of shortages, if the response from CC was appropriate, (Derek & Darren excluded) their continual mis handling of the many stories we hear on BC only convinces me more that a consultation is required.

 

[FramerateUK]

Just to add, Caterham aren't the only manufacturer to have shortages with parts.

 

Someone crashed into me while I was driving my RenaultSport Megane 250 back in November. Quite a bit of damage to the side of the car, which set off the curtain airbag on the passenger side - which burst through the roof lining.

 

The car was signed off for repair about a month later (mid December) and the parts for repair were ordered. All repairs were completed by the end of January, but the car sat there for a further 2 months waiting for the roof liner, which had taken 3 months to obtain.

 

Renault were useless and couldn't even give me a date on when it would arrive. One day it just turned up and Renault themselves seemed oblivious that it had been delivered.

 

From what I've heard from the body-shop, this is quite common. It's isn't just Renault (or Caterham). All the manufactures have supply issues, especially with lower volume stuff like the sporty versions.

 

Edited by - FramerateUK on 11 Apr 2014 15:06:13

[Guest]

Quoting FramerateUK: 

Just to add, Caterham aren't the only manufacturer to have shortages with parts.

 

Someone crashed into me while I was driving my RenaultSport Megane 250 back in November. Quite a bit of damage to the side of the car, which set off the curtain airbag on the passenger side - which burst through the roof lining.

 

The car was signed off for repair about a month later (mid December) and the parts for repair were ordered. All repairs were completed by the end of January, but the car sat there for a further 2 months waiting for the roof liner, which had taken 3 months to obtain.

 

Renault were useless and couldn't even give me a date on when it would arrive. One day it just turned up and Renault themselves seemed oblivious that it had been delivered.

 

From what I've heard from the body-shop, this is quite common. It's just just Renault (or Caterham). All the manufactures have supply issues, especially with lower volume stuff like the sporty versions.

The big difference there is you had an accident and that was a repair job. I know what you are saying, but I've shelled out over £45k on a 'new' car where something as integral as a fuel pump has been out of stock for over three months. That's aside from the numerous other issues I've had, and judging by this thread at least it's not un-usual to have these issues.

 

This really should be bread and butter stuff for Caterham.

[evotell]

I think most people understand that shortages exist, however in my opinion sending out kits known to have parts missing is unacceptable. 😳

[John Vine]

Quoting evotell: 

I think most people understand that shortages exist, however in my opinion sending out kits known to have parts missing is unacceptable. 😳

Tricky one, that. Would you rather have the whole kit, say, two weeks late, or have almost all of it on time so as to begin assembly? I take your point, though, and agree entirely.

 

From Daniel's blog, it seems that Ford customers/dealers themselves can't get the pump (at least, not in the UK). If that's holding up production somewhere, I can just imagine the conversation between Ford's purchasing department and the supplier: "I want to see you at 0730 tomorrow -- I recommend you wear your flameproof underpants."

 

JV

[evotell]

Tricky one, that. Would you rather have the whole kit, say, two weeks late, or have almost all of it on time so as to begin assembly? I take your point, though, and agree entirely.JV

 

All Caterham need to do is give people a realistic time frame and be upfront. 😳 We all make mistakes, but ignoring people is unacceptable. As has already been said CC need to start stocking the correct amount of parts instead of promising people the moon and consistently coming up short.

[BSA]

None of this surprises me i am afraid , My friend purchased a new Factory built SV last year and the finish and fit was truly dreadful how do you rate the HPI Baja SS by the way ?