Worried...

[Andy-M]

You'll have to bear with me because, as stated on several occasions, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to sevens and car maintenance in general.

 

On my way back from the Herts meet at Rushden on Sunday - just pootling down a perfectly straight and level bit of town tarmac there was a loud metallic sound from the front of the Seven.

 

There was nothing for us to hit - so I was confident we hadn't caught anything with the sump and being only a quarter mile or so from home I drove it back.

 

Having parked up in the garage I had a look under the car and think the sump looks somewhat lower than it used to - in fact measuring it there's now only 50mm of clearance between the sump and the tarmac with no one in the car!

 

I had a quick look under the bonnet and didn't notice anything "obviously" broken - but that probably means very little. I haven't had time to do a full inspection as I had to drive across to South Wales that evening and returned late last night.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on where I should start looking (preferably idiot level guidance) and/or is there anyone around the Bedford area who'd be willing to come and take a look?

[Gavin H]

Check the engine mounts - try rocking the engine side to side and you may see it lift slightly on one side. They can break on the weld and return to original position so you cannot see the problem immediately.

 

Other symptoms are the gear leaver moving when you accelerate...

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

... and the exhaust not sitting centrally in the hole in the side skin !

[Andy-M]

thanks both, I'll take a look when I get home. Sounds like it's going to be expensive or swiftly improve my knowledge of how a Caterham is assembled!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

If it is broken engine mounts .... a cheap and easy fix.

 

More of a worry is what did you hit the sump on ?

 

Check it carefully for cracks.

 

Also check the rear mount under the gearbox. This has a rubber block in it too.

[Andy-M]

I presume that's cheap and easy for someone who knows what they're doing / has the proper kit :p.

 

Taking it to a garage would presumably be expensive as I'd imagine it's an engine out job?

 

Thanks - I'll try and figure out from the build manual where all this stuff is :). I really don't think I've hit the sump on anything significant at all :(.

 

I know I grounded very slightly on a speed bump the day after I picked it up but it really wasn't a violent thing (very slowly driving over it exiting a Sainbury's car park). That's really the only thing I can think of.

 

Edited by - Andy-M on 11 Jun 2013 12:01:40

[myothercarsa2cv]

Sumps pick up dings and dents and scratches, they're quite tough. Don't worry too much.

 

Replacing an engine mount is reasonably easy too - jack up the whole car and stick on axle stands, then put a board on the jack head and support the engine. Whip off the mounts, inspect, get new ones if required, pop mounts back on car, torque once all fixings are in place (they never line up perfectly ). You'll be able to do it yourself

[Andy-M]

Thanks, I think the bit that currently worries me most is why is the sump sitting so low? 50mm without anyone in it seems ridiculous judging from other conversations on here?

 

Presumably if a mount had broken and it'd returned to the original position as Gav suggested the height wouldn't have changed?

[Jason Plato]

the sumps sitting low because something has broken - what holds the engine in place ....engine mounts.

 

fix the engine mount and it will then obviously sit back in its prior position.

 

its time to stop typing and get on your back on the garage floor 😬

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Dave Jackson on 11 Jun 2013 12:22:14

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

On a Caterham, the engine mounts are easily accessible and simply bolt to the side of the engine. You don't need a manual.

 

Have a look under the bonnet ... you may surprise yourself how easy it can be.

 

If you can get something under the engine to support it, you don't even need to raise and support the car.

 

You mentioned a loud bang ..... suspect that must have been something hitting the sump ?

[Luegonigel]

See here http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=230556 for my experiences of this last weekend and yes I'll be getting on the garage floor tonight or tomorrow instead of typing!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Linky

[Andy-M]

Quoting Stationary M25 Traveller: 

On a Caterham, the engine mounts are easily accessible and simply bolt to the side of the engine. You don't need a manual.

 

Have a look under the bonnet ... you may surprise yourself how easy it can be.

 

If you can get something under the engine to support it, you don't even need to raise and support the car.

 

You mentioned a loud bang ..... suspect that must have been something hitting the sump ?

 

Not so far as I can make out - there was nothing to hit! My thought was that the noise would probably have been the engine shifting (assuming that's what's happened). Anyway, I'll get under the bonnet tonight with any luck :).

[Eugene]

Andy, I have an engine hoist you can borrow...

 

😬

 

Sorry to hear you had problems on the way home!!!

[sjmmarsh]

Andy

 

If you were sitting astride the white line at the time it made the noise you could have hit a cats eye - the crown of the road means that the sump is nearer the ground than when it is on level ground. If you hit a metal one they do make quite a ding and could break an engine mount.

 

Jack the front of the car up, put it on stands and then put the jack under the sump (plead the load with a plank of wood) and raise the jack a bit. If the engine mount has broken then you should see some movement on one side or the other. Look at both ends - the mounting rubbers can separate, but the arm can also fracture where it bolts on to the engine block.

 

You can then get any bits you need, use the jack to support the engine while you get it in position and then bolt it all together.

 

It is easier with an engine crane, but I am guessing you haven't got one of those.

 

Steve.

[Andy-M]

Thanks Steve, that's really helpful.

 

To be perfectly honest I'm going to run out and get axle stands - I've also only got a "modern" garage to work in so don't think I'd have room for an engine crane! (at least not permanently)

[revilla]

One more vote here for it being a cat's eye - sounds very similar to what happened to me, driving along heard a loud metallic ding, looked around but couldn't see anything I could have hit. With hindsight I was braking quite firmly at the time into a slip lane for a right turn in the middle of the A1 and looking at it since the cats eyes separating the slip lane from the main carriageway are a bit raised. The bodies of the cat's eyes are pretty substantial blocks of iron embedded in the road and standing proud of the surface. That, the compression caused by braking and running a bit too low anyway all conspired to cost me (in my case) a new sump, which wasn't the best way to end my first day as a Caterham owner. Once you have fixed whatever has broken, check the sump clearance again and if it still lower than seems to be the norm for other people with similar setups, it would be worth raising the suspension a bit before it happens again.

[Eugene]

You may find you need a crane to lift the engine.

It's portable, and a real help when doing engine based lifting / removal...

 

It looks a lot like: here

[zetec]

Stop it 😬

 

You need to try & lift the engine a little to see if engine moves & not the car.

Thres your proof.

[zetec]

Quoting zetec: 

Stop it 😬

 

You need to try & lift the engine a little to see if engine moves & not the car.

Theres your proof.

 

Use a jack

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

£697 for an engine crane 😳 .... does it say Harland & Wollf on it ?

 

Like this ?

[Steve Campbell]

Probably one of the easiest DIY "major" 😬 replacements to cut your teeth on.

 

I had the same with my first Caterham ... a 97 SS with an original design mount that had a weak spot....spotted it as the exhaust was touching the sideskin...and with a bit of investigation .... there it was. Was worried as it was just about my first thing that I needed to do on the car that needed a spanner.

 

As stated numerous times above...if it is the engine mounts it's easy.....get the car on axle stands and have a close look at the engine mounts... get a lump of wood under the sump and try and raise a few cms using your jack.

 

[johnv]

shame in didn't happen on the way to the meet andy, we could have had it fixed before the pub opened 😬

[Andy-M]

Hey all,

 

Thanks for the numerous replies - I'm now home and have some further info.

 

I've been under the hood trying to rock the engine as Gavin suggested - nothing shifting at all there. The exhaust looks central in the exit hole so that looks good. I've looked at the mounting brackets on the sides of the engine and given both a good pull in all directions - nothing shifting there either. The only thing I haven't, yet, done is to try and jack the sump up - the reason being it's so low I can't actually fit the jack under it!

 

While I was out there, though, I noticed the front suspension is somewhat slanted - possibly explaining the v low sump, if not the loud clanking noise.

 

Images are:

 

brackets:

here

here

here

here

 

exhaust:

here

 

and the suspension:

here

 

So - unless there's any good reason not to I'll try adjusting the dampers and see if I can get the jack underneath the sump (with some wood) once that's done. Otherwise it's off to buy axle stands - possibly these ones

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Way too low .... you need to raise those platforms !

 

What was the 'bang' though ..... a lucky glance off a cats eye ?