Ads7 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I am hopefully giving northampton motorsport a call tomorrow to try and sort a date for a set up. I have never had a car on a rolling road so am new too what happens and how long it takes. The spec of the car is a 1800k that's had I think the dva ko3 kit fitted with piper 633 cams and verniers, ported and polished head and emerald ecu which has never been set up properly on a rolling road. It just has what map dva had put on it. So should be looking at 160bhpish What I'm worried about is that I have read that 160bhp is tops for a standard k, is this true as I'm not sure if it has forged internals? And if so can I reliably drive and enjoy the car if assuming I get 160bhp. Thanks for your help Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 A rolling road session will stress the engine to the max for a short period of time, why not put a cap on the max RPM for safety . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm not too worried about it going bang on the rollers as you said its only short bursts. My concern is if I hit the 160 bracket will it still have reliable performance on the road and maybe 2 track days a year. A rev limit cap would be an idea aswel. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignity Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quoting Ads7: I'm not sure if it has forged internals? Adam You could take a plug out and check the pistons using a cheap endoscope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Give Dave Andrews (Oilyhands on here) a ring, if you quote the engine/registration number he may have a record of what was done and what rods/pistons it has/had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MereCat Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Hi Adam, I have also just booked a session but with Emerald as its their ECU that I have in mine. Heard very good things about both but opted for the longer drive purely because its Emerald and I get to have a day in the car (to enjoy our English summer!). In terms of how long generally (there is some bumf on their (Northampton MS website) its generally 2-3 hours, although a full map session can take 4-5 hours. Dependent on your ECU model I believe you can also have a couple of maps, but its down to your preference / style of driving. I am going to go with Emeralds recommendation but hopefully save the base map that have on the car first so IF I want to change I can. Got a lappy with the car for plugging in, although dont think its the best idea leaving this in my hands! Dave Andrews knows his onions and I would say that his base map is based on it being fit for purpose (i.e. he has to be happy with it, and I hear standards are high, hence the great reputation for K series engines and I am sure others). I cant see Dave offering upgrades like this if they were to go bang as soon as you drive off from him (I believe he checks suitability of heads before converting). He certainly would not have the waiting list that he has if this was the case. My old Elise Sport 135 ran at 145bhp on standard internals albeit with a ported head and a reprogrammed ECU (which you have on yours). From memory you also have a Powerspeed Exhaust (did you fix the rattle) which will allow the engine to breath better, which I believe helps. Lotus the ran a Sport 160 using K series 1800 engine, again building on the sport 135 (additons being uprated cams and ECU (GEMS or EFI). This ran either a standard 111S exhaust with CAT or a sports exhaust (no CAT) . In short this is what I believe you have with IMHO a better spec of kit and someone that has been building these engines for a living for many years. I hope that this helps allay any fears. I am sure Oily hands and others will put me straight on any errors and comment further. I think we could get 2 RR sessions in when I go up and I believe there is a spot (will confirm) if you fancy a run up to Norfolk together? Best Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 In the k piston reliability is linked to revs. From what you have described you should be ok. My 1.6 has done typically 2-3 track days a year regularly hitting the rev limit of 7600 on standard pistons and has been fine (now 14 years old and 16k miles). Just set the rev limit a bit lower. That said I want to upgrade to forged pistons which is about £1000. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I doubt the engine has forged pistons. The 1600 has a lot lower piston speed than the 1800 and lower piston acceleration so it can sustain higher RPM, the linger stroke also puts higher thrust loads on the pistons. Personally I would set the rev limit at around 7100-7200. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Chan Posted August 2, 2012 Area Representative Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quoting Ads7: What I'm worried about is that I have read that 160bhp is tops for a standard k, is this true as I'm not sure if it has forged internals? And if so can I reliably drive and enjoy the car if assuming I get 160bhp. Thanks for your help Adam TC's first car was Ken Evans original sprint car and had a well specc'd 1600k series running on Jenvey's with some DVA work to its ported head. It ran a standard bottom end. It showed 190 bhp (or actually 189.7 bhp to meet class 4 sprint regs 😬) and was going well past 30k miles and it had done a lot of trackdays and fast road miles (inc the Ring) in both Ken's, ours and the next owner's hands... I think the rev limiter cut in at 7,600 rpm. Hope this sets your mind at rest! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MereCat Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Dave, are you saying the 1600 is a stronger engine than the 1800 then? In sandard spec it can take higher revs? What rev limit would you set for a 1600 / 1800 with forged internals? This would be pistons and rods? Would the springs also need to be uprated to sustain the increased load /rates or is this just half the job and as such we treat as a standard engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Cheers for all the replys! Quoting MereCat: Hi Adam, I have also just booked a session but with Emerald as its their ECU that I have in mine. Heard very good things about both but opted for the longer drive purely because its Emerald and I get to have a day in the car (to enjoy our English summer!). In terms of how long generally (there is some bumf on their (Northampton MS website) its generally 2-3 hours, although a full map session can take 4-5 hours. Dependent on your ECU model I believe you can also have a couple of maps, but its down to your preference / style of driving. I am going to go with Emeralds recommendation but hopefully save the base map that have on the car first so IF I want to change I can. Got a lappy with the car for plugging in, although dont think its the best idea leaving this in my hands! Dave Andrews knows his onions and I would say that his base map is based on it being fit for purpose (i.e. he has to be happy with it, and I hear standards are high, hence the great reputation for K series engines and I am sure others). I cant see Dave offering upgrades like this if they were to go bang as soon as you drive off from him (I believe he checks suitability of heads before converting). He certainly would not have the waiting list that he has if this was the case. My old Elise Sport 135 ran at 145bhp on standard internals albeit with a ported head and a reprogrammed ECU (which you have on yours). From memory you also have a Powerspeed Exhaust (did you fix the rattle) which will allow the engine to breath better, which I believe helps. Lotus the ran a Sport 160 using K series 1800 engine, again building on the sport 135 (additons being uprated cams and ECU (GEMS or EFI). This ran either a standard 111S exhaust with CAT or a sports exhaust (no CAT) . In short this is what I believe you have with IMHO a better spec of kit and someone that has been building these engines for a living for many years. I hope that this helps allay any fears. I am sure Oily hands and others will put me straight on any errors and comment further. I think we could get 2 RR sessions in when I go up and I believe there is a spot (will confirm) if you fancy a run up to Norfolk together? Best Paul Yes Paul the rattle is now fixed. A run up to emerald would be great depending on date. If you let me know when I will see if I can make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quoting Dignity: Quoting Ads7: I'm not sure if it has forged internals? Adam You could take a plug out and check the pistons using a cheap endoscope? What should I be looking for. Thanks Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil G Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 If anyone decides to stay overnight for an Emerald session I can recommend this B&B which is 10 mins away. here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MereCat Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Adam, YHM cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Hi Adam, As much as I understand your concerns (been there) you'll find that although a little dry Troy is very professional and very knowledgable and will take everything you say into consideration. He will not push the engine past what your happy with and will keep a very close eye on temperatures etc, if in doubt he'll ere on the side of caution. My first time on the Dyno was following a DVA upgrade and I was really worried about a) not killing the engine and b) getting the power I was after. Troy was very sure about not going to far and when I told him I didn't want to rev too hard he didn't, he did spend loads of time getting the middle of the map right and explaining why I'd missed the bhp target by 8. Oh and then he made some changes and beat it by 9 You'll be in very safe hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 My advice for a R/R session is to get there, discuss what you are looking for with the experts, and then walk away .. . minimum 1mile away, so that you don't hear what happens next. Note the lack of smiley or I couldn't stand next to my car whilst it was on the rollers. Too stressful. Maternity ward was an absolute cynch by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 ha ha cheers for that Dave. I haven't experienced a maternity ward yet so we will see. Will give them a call and have a chat. Are Northampton MS and emerald as good as each other? Obviously emerald developed the ecu so would that mean better results or is a case of experience and preference. Adam Edited by - Ads7 on 2 Aug 2012 22:01:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dignity Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Quoting Boris: and explaining why I'd missed the bhp target by 8. Oh and then he made some changes and beat it by 9 TADTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 I rang and had a chat with NMS and booked a session on the 29th September. Really looking forward to it 😬 Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 😬 Troy and the guys at NHMS are great to deal with 😬 I think I'll be up there soon (with George the Camper) for carb/set up and maybe a RR session hope to break 50bhp lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Twin solex carbs with k&n filters upgrade markibabes 😳 🥰 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There is nothing more exciting for an engine builder never mind an owner than sitting on the back of a Caterham weighing it down on the rollers for its first mapping session with a brand new engine with Zero miles on the clock Oh and I've stood in delivery suite 5 times 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 *thumbup* Craig flat six 🥰 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads7 Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 Today was the day I took the 7 to see Troy at Northampton Motorsport for a rr session. The car performed really well. Troy strapped it down and started doing his magic. The map that was on it was actually quite good just a bit to rich in places aswel as being to lean in other Here is a pic of the final graph. We got a max of 160.3bhp @7279rpm and a max torque of 143.8 http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt300/vaux2008/275260BF-48EA-4F53-847A-70AE537C8999-327-0000001D1ABCEE59.jpg The black line is engine hp Green is engine trq And the pink is fuelling The car is very nice to drive on the road now. It's a lot smoother and has a very smooth pick up. It has lost the pops and bangs ☹️ but the overall drive ability is brilliant. Adam Edited by - Ads7 on 29 Sep 2012 17:37:09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Great result Adam 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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