rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I have just done my first sprint in the Caterham at Mallory Park yesterday, as expected I got whooped, think most of that was down to my tyre choice, but that is easy to sort. There are a couple of issues that I have found out since driving the event and I wanted some advice... The brakes are terrible, as far as I know they are standard disks with mintex 1144's at the font, but they do not inspire confidence the most worrying bit is that they do not seem to bite evenly under heavy breaking I have to fight to keep the car straight it pulls left then right all the time. Could it just be the sliders on the calipers ? Are standard brakes good enough for sprints and hill climbs ? The second issue, as far as I know my rear axle it an ital but tell me if I'm wrong I have also heard that its an early de dion (like a half way house) with a live axle (possibly not explained that well, I just dont get it). But if its a live axle I should not be able to spin one wheel which I can, so I think it needs a diff or just sorting. The main issue I have though is that because the brakes are bad I have to use the gears to brake but when I do the rear wheels (or at least one) locks up which is scary. Any pearls of wisdom would be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Congrats on doing your first sprint 1. A hydraulic system working properly will apply the same pressure to each pad at the front. Start by bleeding the brakes to make sure you don't have a fluid problem. If that doesn't reveal anything then it's probably a corner-weight issue and you'll need to get the car flat-floored for your weight in the driver's seat. If your brakes are not alarmingly sharp then something is wrong. 2. You can tell by looking at the rear axle whether it is a DeDion or Ital (also called 'live') axle. Your spinning up of one of the driven wheels is down to having an open diff rather than limited slip (LSD). The limited slip-unit is something that can be fitted inside the differential of Ital and DeDion cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi Charlie, I guess that I was under the impression that as this is supposed to be a live axel both wheels would spin up. With the rear wheels off the ground, they turn in the opposite direction, like you say, suggesting that its an open diff. Which I suspect suggests that the person that had it before changed from I guess a locked diff to an open one (maybe ???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The brakes are terrible, as far as I know they are standard disks with mintex 1144's at the font, but they do not inspire confidenceIt was the wooden feel and lack of confidence for me too. I have just changed the standard front brakes to Hi-Spec Ultralite 4-pot calipers and their 260x10mm solid discs. At the same time, I fitted CC blue spot rear pads. Having bedded them in with two long Sunday blats, I have to report that the difference is amazing - I now have effective brakes with some proper 'feel' to the pedal. I am now a very happy bunny. I only use the car on the road, but do a fair bit of touring - including trips like the IOM - over the TT course (mountain), last year to Switzerland, this year it will be to the Pyrenees ..... can you see the thread developing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I guess that I was under the impression that as this is supposed to be a live axel both wheels would spin up. You're thinking of a locked axle, good for drag cars and wheel spins, not good for corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Quoting myothercarsa2cv: You're thinking of a locked axle, good for drag cars and wheel spins, not good for corners I thought that was the definition of a live axle, I guess I am very much mistaken... what is a "Live Axle" if its not that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Live axles have the diff built in to the tube connecting the wheels so the whole lot is sprung, ie can move up and down. A de dion has the diff fixed to the chassis, and a tube that connects the wheels that can move up and down. Then you have independent rear suspension, like the CSR, when the wheels are on wishbones like at the front, reducing the sprung weight even further. Confused yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 12, 2012 Member Share Posted March 12, 2012 Wikipedia "live axle" It's used in discussions about 7s to demarcate them from de Dion rear suspension. Jonathan PS: I find the Wikipedia article a bit misleading as it says that "live axle" is a synonym for "solid axle". I thought "solid axle" was used for axles for driven wheels where there isn't a diff, eg some drag racers." Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 12 Mar 2012 10:27:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular--Bob Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Do you have one of these Live axle, or one of these De Dion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Molecular--Bob: Live Axel, cheers for the pics, can see the difference now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 So now that I have worked out what I have..... Any suggestions on which ATB diff I should be looking at, is this something that I can just go to quaife for ? I dont want a plate diff as this is a road car, and I like the fit and forget of an non plated diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George C Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sounds like the brakes need a really good service / check as the standard brakes should at least give fairly good braking and you shouldnt have to fight the car to keep it straight. You need to check that none of the calipers or rear brake cylinders are ceised or partially ceised (very common), bleed the system and check everything else. Also check the suspention / steering joints and tracking. Dont upgrade anything until you have understood what is wrong with the existing set up. LSD would be good but I would review and reconsider when you have changed the tyres. It may be that sticky tyres plus some decent dampers and springs are the way to go. LSD and bigger brakes are then the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you're racing it, you might prefer a plate as ATB doesn't like bouncing up curbs at full-tilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Charlie: I dont want a plate diff as the main focus of this car is as a road car. I have a rally car which I am constantly having the diff rebuilt in and that is enough for me. George: I think you are right, no point throwing money at something un-necessarily. Cheers for all the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Nothing wrong with having standard brakes and 1144s on the front. That's all I have for sprinting and a good few others will have this set-up too, although I do have the AP Race master cylinder for a firmer feel. Problems then, will lie elsewhere as previously mentioned. ETA, well done for your first sprint, be ready to become addicted Edited by - Aeroscreens on 12 Mar 2012 12:55:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousta Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 In addition to the advice of George_C you might consider fitting fresh pads. When Redine Components checked my braking system, replaced a rear calliper, the brakes still felt very wooden. Fresh front pads solved the problem. I have a set of front discs and Mintex 1144 pads (thanks slider@7- it's Belgian tradition every other seven owner in Belgium has to have some spare parts bought off Bruno!) but I have not felt the need to fit them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Like Aeroscreens I have sprinted my Live Axle car successfully with standard brakes and M1144 pads. They're not the last work in stopping power but plenty good enough to lock the fronts if you apply enough pressure. Personally the feel they provide is perfect for me. With the rear axle I started sprinting with an open diff and then fitted an ATB. The difference it times wasn't very big but the difference in the way the car felt and the ease with which it could be controlled at the limit was huge. I love my ATB 😬. Worth checking the dampers and the corner weights (if you have adjustable platforms) as both can make a big difference to the handling and braking performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virden Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sorry to go O/T, Molecular Bob,, where is the breather on your live axle? Mine is located on the upper RHS about where your brake union is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnv Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 another o/t but it seems a good thread to ask .. has only one of the callipers on the ital axle got a bleed nipple, or are they the same as normal ( i havent got one so I cant check!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted March 13, 2012 Area Representative Share Posted March 13, 2012 If you have 1144's in the front, and shoes of unknown origin in the back, its quite likely the you have too much bias towards the front, so the rears are really not being allowed to work much at all. It well may be worth replacing the front pads with a standard (lower coefficient of friction) pad to move the balance back towards the back. Don't under estimate how much stopping power the rear brakes add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular--Bob Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sorry virden, the pictures were by the power of google. I think the live axle is in a Westie, so probably ford based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADMALC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What front suspension does your car have? The type with the anti-roll bar as one of the top links , in my experience, always displays some steering effect under very hard braking particularly on uneven surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Quoting MADMALC: What front suspension does your car have? The type with the anti-roll bar as one of the top links , in my experience, always displays some steering effect under very hard braking particularly on uneven surfaces. Errm, yes I think that you are right it does have the ARB as one of the top links, its also running spax suspension currently. I am desparatley trying to not spend money on this car as my other car is bleeding me dry but its starting to look like it will be another money pit, as all cars of this nature seem to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I've always found Caterham ownership pretty cheap. What you have described sounds like some of your car is not working as it is supposed to. Fixing it needn't be expensive unless you're paying someone else to do it. Working on it is way easier than other cars because of the easy access... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Or you could do what I do and lurk in the for sale section and buy upgrades on the cheap when you get a chance 😬 But then don't do what I do and break everything you touch There's nothing wrong with what you have now - a good check over the brake system, some new pads and fitting some adjustable platforms (if you don't have them already) will transform the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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