Going slightly retro: Bike Engine?

[SiCrad]

OK, not really retro at all but, given the project to resurrect my car post it's trashing by mindless yobbo's some 4 years ago has stalled at a crucial moment (ie getting the engine in) thanks to my back injury I have been doing some thinking...

 

Simply put, what would it take to convert it to Bike Engined power?

 

Since Sophia has arrived since the car has been laid up my life has changed somewhat and we're simply not going to be using it in the same way going forward - regardless of engine type I think it'll be for short, sharp, shockingly quick trips rather than touring around in. I therefore don't really need the same attributes as it possessed before (which is why i've been uprating the engine etc over time anyway).

 

Being a more or less ex-biker (although I did 3/4 rebuild my Supermoto bike on Friday...) I really quite like the idea of motorcycle engine in the chassis.

 

Thoughts?

 

Am I simply being ridiculous?

 

Anyone done this and care to talk me into, or out of, it?

 

I'm a Honda chap at heart and because it's been done before I guess it would be a Blackbird engine as first choice but is this the 'best' choice - is there a different path to enlightenment?

 

Madness has obviously set in... I'll go lie down now.

 

Simon

 

[Laurence Wilson]

No, I don't think the Blackbird would be the best choice. I reckon a lot of the fragility can be engineered out - do a search here and across the web - but there are newer engines available.

 

However. I'm a Honda fan too and was lucky enough to be in a position to buy when a fellow member was selling his Blackbird engine, airbox, exhaust and dry sump. My decision was practically made for me! But if that opportunity hadn't come up, I might have gone for something else.

 

Anyhoo, the point of my post: I'm currently doing it If you need someone to bounce ideas off, feel free to Blatmail me! I'd be happy to help and encourage 😬

 

Edited by - Laurence Wilson on 27 Nov 2011 23:32:53

[Jonathan Kay]

Quoting SiCrad: 

I'm a Honda chap at heart

 

Keep the Honda, lose the BEC... how about an S2000?

 

How many have ever been converted to this?

 

Jonathan

 

 

Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 27 Nov 2011 18:23:35

[Sheds Moderator]

One of our number went this way with a clapped-out crossflow car. The last I heard he had spent considerably more time and money than he thought (surprise!) and he rather wished he hadn't started. Then again, some do it and report great success. How handy a spannerman are you? This may help, and be honest.

[weeman]

Am I simply being ridiculous?

Ridiculous? you? never ❗ 😬

 

Sounds like a bit of a project. No doubt you're aware that DiZz has retired, it's very good of you to find him something to do 😬

 

Be lucky!!

 

Martin

[Ivaan]

The R1 doesn't need a DS, just a baffle plate. Keeps costs / weight down.

 

Also the output shaft lines up pretty well with the tunnel, and it won't need a hole in the bonnet.

 

Is your car live axle or dedion?

 

Clive

[Nick Chan]

Hi Simon,

 

I have got one of the original Caterham Blackbirds and its brilliant. I bought it as i'm an ex-biker and the noise of the engine is superb 😬. There are several other alternatives, noticeably the hyabusa install but as the power plant is considerably more expensive to begin with, it requires a significant hike in budget.

 

BECs do offer the best of all worlds I think. Cheap insurance and tax, very good on fuel (maybe down to the low weight as high 30's/low 40's is quite possible), excellent noise and perfomance with a free sequential box thrown in! And they are surprisingly easy to live with a go touring in.

 

Drop me a line if you want some more info but I was in the lucky position to rebuild an R1 powered seven last year and the installaton on that car was the neatest I've seen.

 

Nick

[Nick Chan]

With perfect timing Ivaan posts too

[Badger Bill]

There is plenty of poke with a carb'd fireblade donk. Easy to wire in, get a dash blank and just put in the bike clocks with the spedo hidden. Plenty of places to buy flanges to replace the sprocket, a custom 2 piece prop and suitable centre bearing. Don't bother about reverse. Put a push bike speedo in, illuminated by a high output led and thrash the life out of it.

 

Don't believe those that have never even driven one that will tell you how it will never work. It does, and it is a brilliantly bonkers way to enjoy a seven.

 

All the best

 

BB

[robmar]

Nick - when do you see thoes MPGs when it is on a trailer beig towed by some diesel barge

 

Simon - Hayabusa is the way to go 😬, I had Ian Dayson at force racing cars do my conversion, i didn't go down the cheap route and spec'd up the install with loads of expensive bits.

 

Drop me an email offline if you want to know how it went, how it goes, costs etc.

 

Mine was build more with hillclimbing in mind see some online videos, and now gets very little road usage. IMO it is fine on the road but not what you would call all that pleasant a drive. For road driving it was much more suited when in standard superlight spec

 

Rob

 

Edited by - robmar on 28 Nov 2011 08:40:53

[Wight Skipper]

Any engine would be a start...

[SiCrad]

I have an engine, in fact I have two. I just don't know if it's the 'right' engine...

 

anyway - you're a fine one to talk, you can actually 'start' your engine you know :)

 

Thanks for all the replies (except yours weeman, your sarcasm has been noted ) and I will definitely be in touch with those of you who've made the various offers.

 

Those who've seen the project know how much cash I've already thrown at it (well, all bar the wife who's seen it a lot and has no idea how much cash I've thrown at it :) ). I'm not looking to spend oodles more (baby, remember) but I would like something I can live with, use and that suits 'me' if you know what I mean.

 

Thanks for the replies and encouragement so far.

 

S

[charlie_pank]

I'm currently working on a conversion from 1600K to fuel-injectd R1. It is a huge project, but I'm enjoying it so far...

 

Let me know if you have any specific questions...

 

C

[Harry Flatters]

Simon, after all you've been through with this car, it would be a shame if that lovely VX didn't make it into yor car. What can we do to help you get it sorted?

[Dodda]

Quoting robmar: 

Simon - Hayabusa is the way to go 😬, I had Ian Dayson at force racing cars do my conversion, i didn't go down the cheap route and spec'd up the install with loads of expensive bits.

 

Drop me an email offline if you want to know how it went, how it goes, costs etc.

 

Mine was build more with hillclimbing in mind

 

Rob

 

Edited by - robmar on 28 Nov 2011 08:40:53

 

Hi Rob,

I hope that you do not mind, but I have sent you an email with a few questions as I am also very interested in exploring the possabiltiy of converting my R400 (with very sick K series) to bike power - Hayabusa in particular.

Very many thanks for your time.

Steve

[charlie_pank]

Dodda, I'm sure Hyabusas are awesome, (especially in comparison to a CEC!). What put me off when choosing a BEC were (in this order):

 

1) Weight - some sources gave me the impression there wasn't really a weight saving over a CEC

2) Price

3) Drysump requirement (£££)

 

Having said that there's a lot more potential for upgrading a Busa than there is with the choice I made. There are some R1 turbos out there though...

 

PS. Not trying to start a YamBEC vs. SuzBEC fight here, just trying to report how I made my decision when going through the same process...!

 

Edited by - charlie_pank on 29 Nov 2011 09:23:03

[robmar]

Dodda - yep received will respond later today 😬

[Dodda]

Charlie - very many thanks for the input. I can indeed see the attraction of the R1.

I have a huge amount of more research to do and all input is extremely welcome.

What year R1 have you gone for please ? Why ? and what sort of power and weight are you anticipating please ?

 

My car is for racing (CSCC - Magnificent 7's) and track days only, and with a limited amount of budget (and also talent !!) I am trying to decide what offers the most fun per ££ whilst retaining a similar level of performace of the base R400 I started with.

 

I am not going to be able to challenge the front runners with their 300 bhp + Duratecs and sequential g'boxes, so the objective is good close fun racing just outside the top 10 with a pacakge that is as reliable as possible with good availability of parts / replacements etc

 

The attraction of the BEC is light weight and good performance from a "stock" engine, (lots of revs and a sequential box are a bonus !), plus there are very few racing in that series at present (perhaps for good reason who knows !?!).

 

The attraction of staying with the K series is that it is a well known package and people like Dave Andrews offer a superb service.

 

Other non Duratec options of maybe something like a Honda S2000 / Civic Type R etc are appealing due to good power from a stock engine, but the weight & size of the engine appear to be a problem and there are very few converted, therefore information is sparse.

 

Rob - excellent - I look forward to your reply, very many thanks

 

Steve

[charlie_pank]

It's a fuel-injected 2006 model.

 

I chose this because:

The more recent it is, the more powerful, mine should be a touch under 180hp

All the newer ones are FI anyway

The most recent ones have ECU-controlled variable inlet manifold length and that is more complication than I wanted to accommodate.

 

I'm not sure about PTW, I took out the k (130kg) and gearbox (33kg) and bellhousing (10kg?) and I've put in the R1 engine and gearbox (~85kg). Total weight saving: 92kg. The car was reasonably light beforehand as it's ex-academy and I've removed the windscreen... so let's call the original weight 500kg. That would make the new weight 408kg. PTW is therefore 441hp/1000kg.

 

When you consider that the overall weight will be considerably smaller than the overall weight of the big boys in their 300hp Fords, your improved stopping and cornering might put you up there....

[SiCrad]

So, back to me!

 

Hello, Mr Mell - I was just talking to Dizz about the VX this evening. I've kind of trapped myself in the 'it was an HPC before, it shall be a super-HPC now' and to be honest while I am 99% there, I have been thinking about this for a while.

 

At the end of the day, this rebuild (for me) is a one-chance thing to get it right and I'd rather split the engine, sell the bits and do the BEC thing if that feels right (and I'm not yet sure if it is).

 

I guess I am just questioning myself really as I think we've talked about. I am looking to change a number of things in my life at the moment - well, one 'big' thing anyway - and it could well be that the BEC thought is simply part of that "throw it all in the air and see what happens" process.

 

I'll keep you posted don't worry. Anyway, off to South Africa for the weekend and then to the Middle East next week so I will have a bit of a break from thinking about it and see what's what when I get back.

[simonpa]

Hi Si - YHM...

 

Cheers - Simon

 

[SiCrad]

Just replied matey - thank you!

 

So, the more I delve into this, the deeper I get...

[Racing Snake]

Busa is going to come out on top every time When it comes to the BEC's

 

Otherwise Duratec but you know i will say that

 

Edited by - Mad Hatter on 5 Dec 2011 18:50:23

 

Edited by - Mad Hatter on 5 Dec 2011 18:50:47

[charlie_pank]

Quoting Mad Hatter: 

Busa is going to come out on top every time

 

Except maybe weight and price?

[Blue-Lines]

A 1.0 litre 180+bhp screamer is what you want IMHO, especially if it is in a car with a circa 400kg kerb weight.

 

The BMW S1000rr engine for example produces 193bhp stock, buzzes up to 14k and produces 83ft/lb torque . Don't know what it weighs but the latest blade engine is about 65kg's fully dressed, and remember that figure includes the gearbox.

 

Add some lightness

 

Martyn