McBreadhead Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yesterday I tried to start her after a 2 week gap and had maybe 5 crank attempts before the battery gave up. I am wondering if I am doing sthg wrong as I have never been able to get the procedure quite right from cold with my new engine. It has a red top facet fuel pump feeding a Malpassi filter king/regulator then into twin DCOE 40s. I switch ignition on for maybe 10 secs with the pump whirring, then give 1-2 pumps of the throttle, then try starting. The first I try with no throttle, the 2nd I try gradually putting in some right foot, the 3rd pushing throttle to the floor. It is very lethargic and starts to catch only after about the 4th attempt by which time I may also get some blow back (potentially lethal after reading Baz's post). With a battery booster it jumps instantly into life, but without I do not know if I am under or over feeding the carbs with fuel. Any ideas on a foolproof procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 McB Not enough fuel for the cold start, I would suggest. If you do not use the mixture enrichment levers on the DCOEs, I reckon that more like 5 pumps of the throttle before a cold start is more likely to get an immediated fire-up. The techniques of squeezing the throttle open progressively whilst cranking and cranking with full throttle open are more usually associated with starting a hot engine or a flooded one. To start my car on 2 x 45 DCOEs (not a 7): Ignition on Listen to fuel pumps running until they slow down (indicating that the fuel lines are pressurised due to the float chamber needles closing) 5 full throttle prods on the accelerator Crank with closed throttle When it fires very gentle (and tiny) opening of the accelerator to "catch" it. During first few seconds of running, keep tickling it up with very small blips or the throttle to keep dabbing the accelerator pumps. After around 15-20 secs it will begin to stabilise hold it's own tick-over. This has proved to me over years to be the ideal cold start process for DCOEs. My old rally car will start like this after standing for many months. For a road car, I would seriously consider connecting up the enrichment levers with a choke cable, but it is not essential. It is just a bit more "normal" than having to use the acc pumps to get cold start enrichment. Happy pumping. Peter Edited by - 6speedmanual on 24 Oct 2011 11:09:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I use the 5 pumps method as Peter suggested. Normally this will start my xflow. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 And there I was thinking I might be overdoing it. I shall now try a less cautious route and be a bit more generous with the juice. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Hemsley Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Always gave mine 4 pumps. Last time I did it-----back-fire and flames. ??????????? have replaced fire exstinguisher. car will take a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Quoting McBreadhead: starts to catch only after about the 4th attempt by which time I may also get some blow back Backfiring into the inlet manifold is a classic symptom of weak mixture. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My procedure with 2.0VX on twin 45's if it helps:- Ignition on. Listen for elec fuel pump working. Push start button holding on for 3 or 4 second (no pressing of gas pedal as I don't want it to fire. I want the engine oil to flow around as it's dry sumped via crank pulley). Press start button for another 4 or 5 seconds as above. Third attempt push start button and press gas pedal but not to floor. Engine fires on third attempt and I feather throttle until happy, but won't idle on own until fairly warm. I don't get blow back. I have left mine for many months unused and the above works each time. I use to have the std Banner battery which worked fine, but since changed to Powervamp and still fine. I don't have a constant Batt charger connected that most perople appear to have, but I do connect up a normal Halfrauds batt charger after a month or so controlled via a timeswitch so it's only charging the batt between hours of 5pm and midnight (you might have guessed that this timer also does my outside Xmas lights 😬 I don't have any load (alarm/imob etc) so nothing drains the batt when not in use. Cheers, A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Baz, ye gods that is scary! Did you get a blow back then following same procedure or do you think there could have been some other failure? 6Speed, Sounds like I may need my carbs checking for fuel/air mixture then. Who is the daddy for this in the Hants area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Airey Tuning. Old skool and he has a rolling road. Expensive mind. He's on the Winchesterto Alton road just before Cheriton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 O god I was afraid you were going to say that. Tom did my initial set up 2 years ago and it cost me ££££££s. The house smells of pup wee, model airplane dope, and glow fuel but has a kind of charm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 McB Weak mixture on starting, due to insuficient pumping, rather than weak mixture per se due to poor carb jetting or blockage. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Ah now that is a different proposition and makes more sense since he set the jets and mixture 2 years ago and I haven't changed a thing since. I will pump her more then! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierson Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I haven't posted on this thread up until now as I suspect different set-ups on different cars with different carbs (etc.,) and different right feet will always mean that individual starting procedures will be.... well, different. But to echo the 'more pumping' comment: with my X/F on twin 40's I press the throttle pedal 9 times once the pump's ticking has slowed, then turn the key. It always fires first time, is caught on the throttle, then absolutely, positively fails to settle into an idle but no surprises there. This seems to bear out the "weak mixture on starting" theory - even though others have always been adamant that 9 prods of the pedal will flood the thing. It doesn't - but as I said, yours might be different (did I mention that?). I was going to post something about the starting procedure being all about OCD but having read another contemporary thread I'm scared of being admonished for using a TLA Pierson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Have had multiple X-Flow engines, a Vegantune, and now Zetec... all on carbs. Same starting for all - 4 to 5 pumps (less in summer, more in winter), fire-up, and catch on throttle. Use throttle until engine warms a bit and idle becomes stable. Simples 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Will be trying some of these tips. Fail miserably to get started yesterday. Edited by - Irish on 21 Nov 2011 12:03:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 How does it start if you try to jump start it from another car/battery? Mine was somewhat reluctant until a colleague suggested that I check the electrolyte levels (even though the battery was < 6 months old). True enough, topped up the electrolyte, put the battery on charge and it starts first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Hemsley Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sun. Telegraph. Honest John. This is in reply to comments re dificult starting of m/cycles with carburettors. ie. will not start without draining and refilling carbs. quote." The boifuel element of modern fuel is hygroscopic ( absorbs moisture ), so as the weather cools you can get globules of emulsified fuel blocking the fuel lines . The fuel isn't rubbish, it just has to be used quickly. It's obviously best not to leave biofuel in a tank for an extended period." I say it is rubbish and put in only Shell where possible. It does not contain ethenol, I am told. The 7 likes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Russell Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Five pumps and a little tickle of throttle as it starts to fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Hemsley Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yep mine fired a treat. The rebuild is under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 7 pumps is what you need 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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