K series/Emerald non-start

[LesG]

Hi all,

this topic has probably been done to death, but after searching the archives, I'm still not firing up.

 

I have a red light on the ecu with ignition on.

I have a green light with cranking.

I definitely have a good spark to distributor.

I can smell petrol from the exhaust tailpipe, also get wet spark plugs (but not excessively so).

 

It still won't start though.

 

Problems I've identified;

 

When starting up Emerald software, the map I've installed doesn't appear in the front page, and if I try to re-install it, the ecu says it already exists do I want to overwrite. When I do overwrite, switch off ignition, power down then power up the software, front page is still empty.

 

Lookinh in the live adjustments when cranking, rpm only peaks at around 300 rpm, will this be enough to fire up?

 

With ignition on, I can hear fuel pump running, but it runs constantly, not a short 'prime'. I can feel the fuel rushing out of the regulator and down the return line, but not into the fuel rail. There is definitely plenty of supply out of the pump!

 

Any help greatly appreciated (there's not much summer left!)

[skydragon]

When starting up Emerald software, the map I've installed doesn't appear in the front page, and if I try to re-install it, the ecu says it already exists do I want to overwrite. When I do overwrite, switch off ignition, power down then power up the software, front page is still empty.

 

That is normal. The emerald software will only display parameters/maps when you perform a 'read map', then your PC reads the map from the emerald (you will see a progress bar being displayed for a few seconds whilst the map is read) and will then display whatever it has read.

 

Try performing a 'read map' and double check that what is being displayed is correct.

 

I'd have thought 300rpm is enough to start the engine.

 

question - what is your battery voltage?

 

question 2 - presuming the car was running ok before - what has happened since it last ran ok? has it been sat there for months? have you made any changes?

 

question 3 - is there an imobiliser on your car connected to and configured with the emerald?

 

 

 

Edited by - skydragon on 1 Aug 2011 09:22:56

[LesG]

Hiya,

 

battery voltage 12.57 (I'm using a jump pack across the red top 20);

 

this is a 1.6SS engine I've transplanted (car used to have 1.7 Xflow on carbs), also fitted Jenvey 42mm set-up. The engine AFAIK has never been in a car (had to grind block to fit starter!), only used on dyno circa 1996. There is plenty of compression and no obvious leaks. Just looks almost new TBH.

 

there is no immobiliser fitted, and i is definitely disabled in the software.

 

Thanks for your contemplation!

 

 

 

 

[Mankee]

What flywheel are you using? You might have to change the trigger pattern on the Emerald, but I can't remember what settings to use for which flywheel. Sorry!

 

Also, the fuel pressure regulator is AFTER the injectors and fuel rail, so if you are getting fuel going back to the tank, then you must be getting getting fuel at the rail, especially if you can smell petrol in the exhaust, which means that the injectors are firing.

 

Are you using a distributer mounted on the end of the inlet cam or wasted spark coil packs? I think the Emerald needs to know this as well. Might be an idea to drag all of the plugs out of the head and make sure they all spark.

[LesG]

Mankee,

 

yep, I'd better check all plugs are actually firing; I used an inline spark indicator to check output from coil, didn't think to to test onwards from there.

 

I'm using distributor, and I did select Rover 36-4 pattern to give me the green light on cranking.

[Mick Day]

Assuming you are using a distributor, have you set-up for batched or sequential injection? What coil are you using?

[LesG]

Hi Mick,

 

yep, I have selected group injection. In the archives people have spoken about checking the injector sub-loom for the pairing of injectors 1 & 4, and 2 & 3. I do know I have 3 wires in the loom, but just haven't checked if they are wired as such yet.

 

The coil I'm using is a Rover original which bolts to the side of the block with a sort of dog-legged bracket.

[Mick Day]

The coil on the side of the block is the one to use & if you have the correct injector wiring that corresponds with the setting on the Emerald then......... so check all plugs are firing when they should.

 

To start the engine needs a correctly timed spark, fuel at the right point & compression. So if it still wont start it must be one of the 3.

[LesG]

Ok, an update from tonight;

 

the distributor cap was broken, looks to have had a clout directly on the king lead union while on the engine. There was a large piece of the cap fell out when I removed it, also most of the carbon brush! I've fitted a new unit, and I now definitely have sparks going to all four cylinders.

 

I'm definitely getting (petrol) wet plugs.

 

When I checked in the 'Read Ecu' file, what came up was the file for the Dubsport Mk1 Golf 20v turbo. I then re-installed the 1.6SS K Series, 42mm Jenvey, Superlight 4-1 exhaust, 157bhp file (same as my engine).

 

Definitely get 'green light' on cranking, but still won't start.

 

Anyone visiting the Lakes anytime soon?

[djg]

Maybe teaching granny to suck eggs, but you have triple checked the leads order on the dizzy cap?

 

If you have spark and fuel, they may just not be at the right times to each other.

 

Does it not even cough and splutter a bit?

 

Doug

[LesG]

Hi Doug,

 

if the distributor turns in an anti-clockwise motion, then I definitely have the plug leads in the firing order of 1-3-4-2.

 

As far as I can see, I can only fit the dizzy cap on one way, so that can't be wrong. What I need to do is check No.1 is firing at the right time, otherwise I'm struggling.

 

I did get a little flutter of life briefly, but not had any backfires or anything to suggest mis-timing. I have Unipart GSP 6662 spark plugs fitted, which although in good health, have become sickened with fuel, so I'll be replacing with NGK BCPR7ES in the morning. I also need to charge up the booster pack!

[djg]

My no 1 lead is the top most of the dizzy cap, and your right the dizzy cap only fits one way. The rotor arm is driven direct from the inlet cam, so that needs to be right to get the spark at compression.

 

Again, sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs. Just seems to be all correct now but the timing, and if it's close they tend to run/cough etc.

 

Hopefully it's just fowled plugs.

 

Good luck tomorrow.

 

Doug

 

[Tim V-W]

Hi

 

What engine is it and what map are you using ?

[LesG]

Hi Tim,

 

it's a 1.6 SS, with Jenveys and competition 4-1 exhaust. I chose the 'spal1' map 157bhp for similarity of engine spec. I haven't fitted my verniers yet though (and I presume that engine has the cam timing optimised), but thought it a better map than the supplied base map for a standard Elise 1.8 (single throttle body etc.)

 

Edited by - LesG on 5 Aug 2011 23:59:32

[oilyhands]

Wind the throttle open a little more using the throttle adjustment screw.

 

Oily

[LesG]

Eureka! It lives!

 

Fitted a new set of NGK plugs, gave a couple of turns on the throttle adjustment screw, turned the key and she burst into life! What a glorious sound after all that cranking over!

 

Thanks go to all those who offered advice, and especially Oily (guess I should pay more attention to the instructions in your website!)