Possibility of production run of new upgraded Ital driveshafts.

[guilleracing]

Hi every one,

 

As I currently have the axle off the seven to fit a Quaife diff, I have had a look into the subject of getting a production run of new Ital shafts made.

 

No prices yet, but we could specify some new shafts done in a very durable material or with a bit of a re-design they could be made to withstand a bit more kerb hopping without the resulting failures.

 

The two options would be a completely identical part made in a superior material or a re-designed shaft made to be a lot stronger.

 

They won't be very cheap, but the reliablility would be improved.

 

There could be scope in the design to improve the way the taper lock is held on or in fact spline both ends and fit a new splined hub.

 

Options could include a double roller bearing assembly and splines on both ends and a set up like the Group 4 Ford Escort. This would have a splined hub on the outer end instead of the taper. With a little effort I could see these shafts putting up with the same sort of power as an Escort axle.

 

Naturally this would do away with the complication of changing the complete axle.

 

 

Just a final touch it would be a simple option to do a very lightweight disc brake option for that finishing touch. 😬

 

 

A bulk buy would be a good option.

 

What does everyone think?

 

 

[ECR]

Have you spoken with SPC ? I know he was working on driveshafts (and on a complete new axle). Not sure if it was Ital .....

[guilleracing]

Hi,

 

I am aware of SPC who do make nice products.

 

I was thinking of doing this independently through my own workshop and suppliers to keep the cost down to a sensible level.

 

To give you an idea of prices, splined hubs we would produce for about £80.00 to £90.00 each and you could specify Ford or Ital fitting with the original Ital axle.

 

I would look to being able to supply a complete kit of parts to do the top spec I.E. shafts splined both ends, superior material, double bearings and all the bits you would need for the complete thing for less that £500.00.

 

To be fair, I think the easiest thing would be for me to do a kit for my own car, and see what it works out at.

 

I would just be interested in seeing if anyone else fancied an upgrade.

[guilleracing]

Have just been on the phone to SPC.

 

They have a load of spare shafts for the Ital in stock at £65.00 each plus the VAT so I think I will give making any more, a miss for now.

 

This info might someone else out though. I hope so!

 

Greg.

 

 

 

 

 

[Miltec]

The graduates have just had the drive shafts upgraded I think, you could check with them

 

VX 1600 Live Axle

T440LKK

[James_Russell]

The Grads club investigated solutions to thir problem and the result was a £625+vat kit that addresses the weakness in the half shafts.

Not as simple as it first seems, Quaife produced a prototype which failed on the first lap of the first test, then declined to have anything more to do with it!

-James

 

1999 VX 8v (Q41 ACF)

[Revin Kevin]

Greg,

As stated above McMillan motorsport (support the graguates) are in the process of developing a hub and half shaft kit for the Ital. I spoken to Andy at Mcmillan, the shafts are splined both ends and will use a double roller bearing instead of the single, still not a floating kit like a GRP 4 atlas. I don't think this kit will be cheap, Andy wouldn't commit to a price as of yet as they are still testing.

New standard shafts are avaliable from Redline, they are supposed to be a bit stronger, but how much I think is questionable.

I'm just about to build my self a new axle over the winter with new standard shafts a jigsaw CW&P along with the Quaife diff I fitted last year.

I've done a fair bit of research with the Ital and with the right bits seems to be reliable to reasonable BHP. A friends axle I assembled last year is taking 190bhp and 145lbs torque. What does seem to kill shafts is kerb jumping, they fail at the outer end with a crack starting from the end of the keyway (stress raiser).The answer to this is don't kerb jump.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 6 Nov 2009 16:06:54

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 7 Nov 2009 09:22:21

[Andrew Walker]

With regards to a possible disc brake conversion for the Ital axle - you should have a look at James Whiting's website as he is apparently taking orders for the conversion that was used on the Caterham-FireBlade cars.

 

here: here

 

 

[guilleracing]

Hello again,

 

Yes I know about the shafts available from Redline. It was me who arranged the production of these for Redline with Bob Dayson. Unfortunately poor Bob has passed away. The material these are made from is stronger that the OE parts.

 

Does anyone have a price for the james Whiting kit?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Revin Kevin]

Greg,

Whitings prices are on his site. See above link.

Thanks for the info on the standard shafts, it's good to know for certain they will be stronger.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 6 Nov 2009 17:01:09

[guilleracing]

Hi Chris,

 

The Whiting kit seems nice and well thought out.

 

As I run an race engineering business it doesn't make sense to pay for what I can machine up myself.

 

I will have a go and produce a kit for my car and see if I can match the price.

 

I have found a supplier of genuine drive shafts @ £22.00 each. The only problem is that they are 40mm longer than the Ital ones.

 

I'm going to give it a haircut! ( I am serious. We regularly shorten shafts out here in the Islands.)

 

Greg.

 

 

Greg.

[Revin Kevin]

Greg

Keep me posted on the shafts and disc kit.

I have looked at disc braking the Ital before, Whitings kit is very nice, although he uses two very small dia grub screws to hold the bearing in place rather than a shim and is a bit beyond my budget.

But It could be done a lot cheaper. Use something like fiesta front discs suitably machined to fit over the standard hub. Then fabricate a bracket that bolts in place of the drum back plate to hold the shaft bearing in and locate the caliper. this would negate the cost of a bespoke hub and disc. Use sierra calipers as per everyone else. Handbrake cables will be relatively easy then all you need is the handbrake cable brackets. I think the most ackward bit will be locating the handbrake brackets as they will probably need to be in the back end of the transmission tunnel where it's all a bit tight. It would be good to see a fireblade car to see how Whiting did this bracket.

 

Cheers

Chris

[guilleracing]

Hi Chris,

 

I know the discs shown on the web site are very early fiesta @ £8.00 each from any motor factor. The machine time to re-drill them amounts to about £50.00.

Caliper brackets could be bolted onto the end of the axle and the calipers themselves are about £140.00 each. Naturally there should be some profit in any business. I will have a look into it and see if there is a Clubmans price for this kit. This would be based on keeping the original hubs.

 

I have done a lot of conversions on live axle cars and such and I like to keep the cost to a sensible level.

 

My experience of rear brakes on a seven leads me to think that the smallest lightest disc caliper combination is all that is required.

 

 

Greg.

[James_Russell]

The Grads solution has been developed and produced by a company called 'Rakeway'. McMillan Motorsport have no association as yet, but will be stock holders once the prototype is tested and the production run is commissioned.

Just thought I'd clear this up as credit is due to the efforts of 'Nick Haryett' (mega graduate and CGRC board member).

[Revin Kevin]

James,

Interesting to here and nice that the right people get the credit, Mcmillan didn't mention this when I spoke to them.

 

Greg, I've mailed you off line.

 

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Edited by - Revin Kevin on 7 Nov 2009 08:55:42

[Phil B]

Hi, I have an '85 LA which came to me with James Whiting disc braked Ital axle and LSD. The car had been tracked for a few years so didn't have a handbrake. I sorted this out by making a bracket for the single cable which attaches below the floor pan just rear of the gearbox tail and then fitted a Caterham bracket further back to take their standard Sierra caliper cable. It works and has passed the MoT. The rear calipers are standard Sierra and a bit sticky so I am thinking about replacing them. I fitted Hi-Spec fronts last winter and with alloy hubs reduced unsprung weight by about 12lb a side, so I may go for their alloy rear calipers.

Regarding the grub screw adjusters for the rear bearings, I spoke to James about a fix for these. He has sorted this now, he has sourced some "spring shims" abit like a wavy washer. He put new bearings on for me and shimmed them against the hubs so they don't move anymore.

I could be interested in a halfshaft upgrade as I am holding off any engine mods until I have strengthened up the rear end. I had been thinking about Ford or even going IRS.

 

 

Phil B (7 at last)

[Blade Runner]

I've been looking into upgrading my LA fireblade as its currently on drums with no LSD.

With JWs brake disc conversion running at about £1k and then another £750 for a LSD that still leaves unstrenghtened half shafts so I am seriously looking at SPC live axle kit based on the Ford English for about £1500 complete with discs, LSD and alloy diff casing. I'm waiting to hear back from them on a few queries but has anyone else considered one of these or have one. I hope that they can supply a hub with Ital PCDs or I will have to factor in a new set of wheels and changing the front hubs to match.

 

Trevor

ps I'd also go for HiSpec brakes on the rear as my fronts are excellant.

PINK LOUD and PROUD

 

Edited by - Trevor A on 24 Nov 2009 16:25:53

[millsn]

Have a look here

[Blade Runner]

Mmmmm. didnt think there would be any offset of the diff from the center line and didn't expect to do any body modes. I do have a slightly different situation in that because of the Fireblade engine I have a reverser box mounted centrally (?) within the transmission tunnel with a short double flanged prop shaft. I will of course have to check the flange dia and PCD of the bolts but I expect these to be std ital sizes.

All needs a bit more investigation.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Trevor

 

PINK LOUD and PROUD

[Andrew Walker]

Phil B - I was just wondering what your thoughts are on going IRS - I would guess that this involves major work on the frame to carry the diff and also pick-up points for the suspension etc. 🤔

 

 

[Phil B]

Hi Andrew, the IRS idea is still a bit of a pipe dream to be honest and it would require a fair bit of chassis surgery. What had caught my eye was the IRS set-up on the Fisher Fury. This appears to all mount onto a cradle which has the potential to be transferred into the back end of a 7. BGH Geartech own the Fury now and one day I will get myself over there and have a chat with them.

 

Regarding diff offset on Ford axles, if you are going down the bespoke axle route there is nothing stopping you from having the axle case built offset so that the diff flange is on the centreline. You would have unequal length halfshafts but if these are to be custom items there is no difference. You would need to re-position the A-frame pick-up but that is not overly complicated.

 

cheers.

 

Phil B (7 at last)