Wanted - Steel crossflow guru urgently wanted

[Klunk]

Hi,

 

I'm not sure how much of a difference the steel bit makes but here goes!

 

I have a 1700 steel crossflow on 48s with lumenition optronic on an aldon dizzy and try as I might I can't get the darn thing to fire *mad* ☹️ Crank - , Spark - , Fuel - , Fire - 🙆🏻 🙆🏻

 

Firstly, I checked the compression and it is 210 which I understand is okay.

 

I have checked and rechecked the optronic set up using lumenition's own tests everthing appears to be okay and I'm getting a good spark at the plugs

 

I have tried unballasted (DLB 105) and ballasted (megaspark2) coil set ups(advice on which is best would be appreciated - with wiring diagrams would be even better)

 

Changed the leads, the dizzy cap, the rotor arm.

 

I haven't changed the plugs yet as I don't which would be best on this engine but the ones in are Champion N6YC (suggestions please). Plug gap is 25 thou.

 

The annoying thing is it worked when I put it away in the garage 12 months ago and, although I have replaced parts of the loom, I made sure everything was as it was before.

 

Long term I will probably go down the ECU route but for now I need to stay with this system.

 

Sorry for the numpty questions but I'm sure it's something dead simple so all help/links greatly appreciated.

 

Giles

 

 

 

 

Edited by - klunk on 18 Mar 2008 12:06:46

[Peter T]

Silly questions first.

Have you fuel in the tank and is it getting to the carbs?

Are the plugs fouling with fuel?

If so then it is an ignition fault.

You say you have a spark, is it in the right place at the right time? (ie) firing order?

A couple of simple checks will track down what is wrong.

 

Driving a usable Elise 111R

[Klunk]

Hi Peter,

 

In short:

 

Fuel - yes (i've been caught out by that before 😬)

 

Fuel to carbs - yes, pressure is 2.5 PSI and can hear carbs filling and pump slow down when carb valve shuts off. I have tried priming the carbs and then turning the pump off so as not to force fuel into the carbs if the needle valve is worn.

 

Plugs - I have seen drier plugs in my time but I cleaned them up and still no joy.

 

Good spark - yes about 1/2 inch spark HT lead to cylinder head when cranking.

 

Firing order is 1243 which I believe is correct and the rotor appears to be in the right place for the right cylinder at the right time.

 

Regards,

 

Giles

 

 

[Graham Perry]

A very old trick which many mechanics have never even been taught these days now that electronic ignition is normal ,is to check the the colour of the spark . If its blue then If its yellow then thats usually 🙆🏻 and that could indicate an underlying ignition problem. The fact that it jumps 1/2 inch suggests that this is unlikely to be a problem though, but I would check it as its an easy one.

 

High compression crossflows can be tricky to start. I might be tempted in your position to put some neat petrol in the plug holes and try to start with a battery booster attached due to high compression. I have done this myself trying to start my own sometimes recalcitrant steel crossflow, and indeed have that pleasure awaiting me in the next couple of weeks after a big rebuild.

[GordonW]

If the fuel is 12 months old this might be the problem, I had something similiar with fuel less than a year old, it can deteriorate alarmingly.

[Klunk]

Hi Graham/Gordon ,

 

Graham, I think you've just confirmed one of my theories. When doing the "HT lead to earth" spark test the 1/2" spark was blue and generated by the Megaspark2 & ballast. When I connected the DLB105 (with/without ballast)the spark was only 1/4" and yellow. From your comments am I correct to assume that the DLB is probably on its way out and should be junked?

 

Petrol in the bores trick sounds interesting I will give that a whirl - I wonder if a can of "Easy Start" would do the same trick? The battery booster is dead so I will have to jump from another car.

 

What plugs/coil do you run Graham? (ballast/no ballast etc).

 

Gordon, I hadn't thought about the quality of the fuel but given this is supposed to run on super + valve protector maybe that would be a good place to start - hope I've got enough fuel cans empty

 

Many thanks *thumbup*

 

Regards,

 

Giles

[elie boone]

You have changed the dizzy cap & rotor with exactly the same i presume.

also check the gap in the dizzy for the pick-up.

Easy start will overcome the detoriotion of fuel, the detoriation is detement on where it has been stoed, in the sun under a tarpaulin it goes off much faster than in a cool place.

[Roger King]

I can't be certain about plug type because I don't know the whole engine spec, but NGK B8ECS are suitable for many such engines.

 

It may be worth removing the top of each carb (five screws) to check that fuel is actually in the carbs.

 

Have you checked that the throttle pumps are working? If they're not, you'll get no fuel into the engine. To check, remove the air filters and look down the barrels with a torch while you rapidly open the throttle fully by hand. You should see fuel squirting out from the pump jets near the top of the barrel just in front of the butterfly. All four barrels need to do this.

 

If you don't have this, you can try squirting a little fuel into each barrel by hand and then cranking the engine. It may fire and run long enough to free things up.

 

It may also pay you to drop a thimble full of engine oil down each plug hole and cranking the engine with the plugs out for a couple of seconds. This will help the rings to seal better initially.

[jonboylaw]

It might be worthwhile retarding the ignition slightly until you can get it to start, say back to about 9 degrees, it will certainly help the starter :)

 

Megajolt anyone ? :) -> here

 

 

Jon

 

 

-----------------------------------

Ital or Ford... the choice is yours....

 

Hmmm, I'll have the ford please Bob.

[Pezky]

I've got a Megajolt on my crossflow

[Sheds Moderator]

I bet it's stale fuel. Dump it andtry new.

[simon metcalfe]

Hi Giles,

 

have you removed and replaced the dizzy body itself? It is v easy to replace this 180 deg out - usually leads to the engine popping and banging but it won't actually run.

 

Just a thought.

[Klunk]

Hi all ,

 

Haven't had chance to carry out all the suggestions yet but here's what I do know so far.

 

Elie - Cap and rotor are the same and pickup position is fine. The fuel has been in the car and in the garage for the last year but I will put in a fresh batch to be sure.

 

Roger - Thanks for the plug spec. Throttle pumps are working in all 4 barrels and it looks like there is plenty going in. Will try the oil thing next.

 

Jon - I did wonder about retarding the spark so will add it to the "To Try" list. I have read many of the Megajolt threads and it will probably be the future of the ignition on this engine but being a stubborn 🙆🏻 I refuse to be beaten just yet .

 

Simon - Haven't had the dizzy out since it last ran - Mind you I did see my 5 year old daughter exiting the garage with a spanner the other day... 😳 😬

 

Thanks for all the suggestions *thumbup* - keep 'em coming. Hopefully I will get a chance to get into the garage tomorrow evening so will keep you all posted.

 

Giles

 

 

 

 

[JampJ]

If mine's been stood for a long period, it takes about 10-15 pumps on the accelerator pedal, then the pedal needs to be held just off the floor to start.

Cheers John

 

JFDI

(Just F*****g Do It)

[Klunk]

She lives!!! 😬 😬

 

Despite looking at everything again I discovered it would fire on Easy Start so I knew everything was correct electrically. Drained the tank, put in Vpower + additives, enlisted the use of a heavy right foot and hey presto! - music to the ears and what a cracking noise - I'd forgotten just how great it sounds *smokin*.

 

Many thanks to all for your suggestions *thumbup*.

 

Regards,

 

Giles