AMMO Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 For those interested in Duratecs. After selling my engine to Tony C just before Christmas I finally built a new Duratec 2 litre engine and installed it. Rolling road tested it at Emerald today. Finally! At least the weather has been nice for the last few days. Been up since 2.30 am because for some reason I couldn't sleep. I'm very tired so I'll give you the condensed version. Old engine was 228 bhp and around 170 ft lb of torque with a 7500 rpm red line. New engine is 263 bhp, 183 ft lb of torque and 8,500 rpm redline. This was with no air filter. With the air filter it was 256.5 and 177.6 flt lb. As I set out to build a 250-260 bhp motor it will do fine for me. It is very docile to drive at low rpm and is by no stretch of imagination a race engine (that is still to come!). Happy in traffic and for the Tescos run. I like the extra 1000 rpm as I was hitting the rev limiter through the gears before. I'll try to post the graph on www.dyno-plot.co.uk in the next few days. Coolant temperature never went above 90 degrees C. Oil temperature never above 110 C and fell quite rapidly when load reduced. Air temperature got up to around 49 C. so I reckon if the oil temperature was going to go stratospheric it would have done. No oil cooler and no burnt feet. It is running on 95 octane fuel and I have had Dave Walker install the switchable mapping so next time I go to see him I can stick some high octane fuel for track days and tweak the map accordingly. Probably get a few more horses. I'll probably have a third map with an airbox. Since tuning the engine the induction noise has increased and I don't know if I can put up with it all the time. I know that the little old lady up the road doesn't like it because she shook her fist and shouted at me on the way home AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Sounds like a lovely engine Ammo, guess that's a steel crank? Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Rob The new engine is very sweet. About the same bhp as your 2.3 but with 1000 rpm more but 20ft lb less torque. Swings and roundabouts. Today the car had only me a Dave sitting in it. With a torquey 2.3 we stick three sacks of sand and about 3 people in the car to stop the tyres losing traction. Less torque suits my sissy driving style more. Stock crank. Arrow rods, Omega pistons. Wouldn't bother with a steel crank until you get over around 280 bhp. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Excellent results AMMO, sounds like an almost perfect spec for the average person, look forward to full details.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I was wondering why I hadn't heard from you for a while - cracking result, and well done for finally getting it all back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Glad to see you're keeping in practice Ammo, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more squire! Great result btw. Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 12 Sep 2007 23:24:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Sounds like a great upgrade path for those with 2 litre engines! Would have loved to have compared back to back with my old 250ish 2.3 engine. Quick swap next track day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 Danny Your car is too fast for an old guy like me and I think you might find my car with its screen and flared wings a bit sedate. You're welcome to try. You're right about a 2 litre upgrade. A good way for people with 2 litre engines to go if they want more power. All of the 2 litre engines I have built have been fairly basic 210 or 220 spec engines. Anybody wanting 250 bhp automatically goes for a 2.3. But now there is a 2 litre 250 bhp option too. The 2 litre Duratec is the one I liked from the word go. I'm not keen on the stroke of the 2.3. It's OK and great value for money but I like to hear an engine rev to 8,500, 9,000 and eventually 10,000 rpm when I build the 2 litre screamer. You can get stomping torque from a 2.3 but the traditional way to get power is to rev. That is why I destroked and bored your engine to make it into something more akin to a race engine. You can race a 2.3 but it will never be a race engine in my opinion. I have 2.1 that has been sitting under my bench at work for some time. Basically a bored 2 litre. It has more capacity, compression and cam than my engine as the customer is going to run it on the race track and with high octane fuel all the time. I was told it had to make 265 bhp. Somehow I think it will make more! Waiting for Dave Walker to get his finger out and get his Superflow engine brake sorted so we can map it. Hefully next month. 😬 Actually I think there may be a track day at Woodbridge this weekend. And the weather is fab here today 😬 Let's hope it stays like this for a while. Ta Brent and Dobuy Stuart Must come and see you at some point as I think I have some bump steer issues that you probably know a lot more about than me. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Please stop all this talk of 250-260 bhp engines as this will only end in tears (mine)when my wife finds out how much i was forced to spend on a perfectly good standard engine 😬 Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You know you want to Dave. 😬 It was talk similar to this (by Ammo I might add) that got me into trouble with SWMBO. The man is a hazard to marital harmony! Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 13 Sep 2007 10:06:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 "perfectly good standard engine" 🤔 What does this mean? I don't understand the above phrase at all. A combination of words that have been seemingly assembled together at total random that make no sense at all. "marital harmony" There's another one I don't understand. At least this one is less complex as it only has two words. I think it means "when your wife leaves". Not sure though. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Nearly 265 hp out of a 2 litre with a stock crank is really good. Brings it into perspective when you consider my crossflow needs a steel crank to produce 80hp less with only 300 fewer cc. Thats progress for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Interesting about the crank, so 8500rpm on a standard crank is ok with the 2.0l engine. Hmm, it does sound like a very nice upgrade if you have a standardish 2.0l in your car already. I'm quite happy with my oodles of torque though 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 Rob People are different and like different things. The 2.3 is more than adequate for many people. Some people prefer the torque of the 2.3 some have the option of the 2 litre with the potential of higher revs. (or are content with 220 bhp). In reality most people have the 2 litre cooking engine with stock crank and rods that is limited to 7,500 rpm just the same as the 2.3. The reason the cooking 2 litre engines are limited to 7.500 is not the crank but the rods and pistons. Replace these and you have a unit that will rev a lot more. 9,000 rpm and 280 bhp is the most I have heard. So both the 2 litre and 2.3 stock cranks will go to 280 bhp. After that go for a steel crank. On an interesting note the head on my engine and the head on yours are identical. The two engines make the same power but with different torque and revs. Same with Danny's big valve head. It made over 300 bhp on the 2.4 engine and the 2.2. So if you take a 300 bhp head and stick it on a 2 litre......................... AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 280 bhp is the most I have heard. One of SBD's Durayawns at Brighton was 293bhp IIRC . .. . This was definately under 2000cc. Don't know what fuel he was using though - it may well have been race fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It was also an awful lot more modified if it's the same engine I'm thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Peter Hayter's car which Steve Broughton has been co-driving this year is 439 kg with 297 hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Adam I think you might be taking that snippet of a quotation rather out of context. I think Ammo is referring to the fact that he would change to a steel crank over 280 bhp not that it isn't possible to go over that figure. Do you know what crank is used on the SBD car? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Brent Sbd have there own design crank for the duratec, its listed on there website Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 So they agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Adam I think you might be taking that snippet of a quotation rather out of context. Yes - I spose I have haven't I 😳 . .. I blame my poor comprehension of Ammo's post on Alt-Tabbing between a tiny BC window and a maximised work window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 How many other 4cyl engines can go to 280bhp on a std crank ? It just shows how "standard" engine design has progressed in the past 10 years. I'm sure the duratec designers weren't thinking of how much power the engine could produce when they designed it for the emmisions. Ammo makes it sound so simple 😬 Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevDyson Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Ammo, You are a dangerous man 😬 😬 😬 😬. Still gouing for the 210 engine we discussed...... I need to leave something for future upgrades i guess *confused* Q361 ANJ here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Peter Hayter's Westy (the yellow one) has a 2 litre Vx SBD engine with special crank, rods and pistons. The red one has the 2 litre SBD Duratec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I remember when AMMO stripped a new Duratec down at Holbay on one of his 'training evenings', he through the stock crank on the balancing machine and both he and the chap that did the crank balancing where bloody impressed at just how perfectly balance the stock crank was. Reckoned it wasn't worth touching, except of course once the clutch and flywheel were added. Modern engineering and tolerances obviously counts for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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