BrianHorn Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 After receiving your input last week re tappet adjustment I was feeling confident that the new owner of the car would be very happy with it..........when he saw the car he said it was just what he had hoped for. I got a sms from him on Saturday night to say that the engine had seized on the way home It appears that it ran out of oil!! He tells me that the pressure was ok as he kept checking the gauge and that the water temperature was also good......... and then the knocking started. Lightly at first so he stopped to have a listen. He said it sounded like it was coming from the carbs so he tightened the carbs on their mounts *confused* citing that they were loose and then continued....for not much further when the knocking started in earnest from 'down below' When he pulled over and stopped the engine to let it cool, the starter wouldn't spin the engine over so he thinks it has seized. He also says that was oil residue in and around the carbs. That really has got me stumped. So far I have agreed to have the car 'rescued' back to Germany for inspection but there will obviously be a cost involved in putting the engine right but I believe that I cannot be expected to contribute. The chap didn't check the oil level. Not once on a 700km drive on the motorway in an 18 year old car that he didn't 'know'. We topped the oil up before he left but I guess the other question is; where did all that oil go? That's over 3 litres of oil in 6 hours! It has NEVER used that amount of oil I could I suppose take the attitude-you pays your money, you take your chance, but I work on the principal, how would I feel if it happened to me. So I am willing to help get the car up and running again but VERY reluctant to foot any of the costs. What do you think? Edited by - BrianHorn on 15 Jun 2007 13:29:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Legally you are in the clear. Morally, it's up to you.... Personally, if he had paid a fair price I would contribute something, but that's my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 John, that's EXACTLY how I feel. As we all know we spend a fair bit of money on our cars in upgrades, improvements etc, not to mention the hours in the garage so I think he got a very good car for his money. But he was such a nice guy and we had done the deal by email etc so I don't want him to feel that I've had him over because selling a specialist car on the net between two different nationalities requires building a bit of trust in each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Brian, you are doing the right thing by getting the 7 back to see what the problem is. Once you find out what is up with it, then you can decide what to do. How was it being driven ??? Caterham Fireblade here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Tricky one, but I think you are being fair with him. As far as the carbs go , they are mounted on rubber washers, so they should be a little loose to allow for vibration damping. Does it have a leak? that would be the only way i could see it using that much oil in that amount of time. I would have thought if a big end baring was on its way, the oil pressure would start to drop off. If it was me I would want it back to go through for my own piece of mind. just to see if there was any damage to the car. In case he whacked the sump or somthing similar. RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Manxseven, He says that he was driving the car at around 120-130 Kph (ie, about 70-80 mph) ie fairly steady most of the way. It was all motorway. Gambo, I told him on Saturday night when we spoke that the carbs are mounted on rubber washes and that there is a bit of movement in them. I can't understand why he would have thought that the issue might be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Formston Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Hi Brian he sounds not very mechanicaly minded, hope its not as bad as you think and can be sorted cheeply can you rebuild the engine yourself if not where in Germany are you im coming to Bregenz on Lake Constance the end of June I could pop in and have a look Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Paul, I think he has some experience of older cars as he has previously owned an MGB and more recently an MX5(pop up headlight job) and an Elise. I believe he misjudged the oil usage of a car like that and like I said before, if it was me who had bought the car and was driving 700kms home, I'd like to think that I would have checked the oil at least once. Hindsight, is however, as we all know, a wonderful thing. Paul, I forgot to say thanks for your offer of help but Konstanz is as far from where I am as you are now! Edited by - BrianHorn on 4 Jun 2007 17:09:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Brian, My sympathies to you on this. Funny thing oil consumption as my old xflow 1700 hardly drank a drop, maybe 1 litre in 3,000 miles. Now I have a 1760 with Stage 4 race head it drinks up to 2 litres every 400 miles which has had me on tenterhooks for a while. Discovered this early on which had me checking it regularly and now the head's off I have discovered a cracked valve which may or may not be related. But if yours never really consumed that much and you communicated that to the buyer then if I were him I wouldn't be too worried at checking over that kind of distance. It seems odd that it suddenly let go the oil in that short time so has sthg failed? Do you know if the idiot light come on at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I have been guilty of tightening my "loose carbs", 😳 soon had my work undone mind. I've even taken carbs to bits for service and never knew (or did I forget?) they have to be "loose". edit: VERY LONG journey + "starter wouldn't turn the engine" .. onset of click of death? Would be a blessing. You do not actually say he has actually checked the oil since the problem manifested. anthony Edited by - anthonym on 4 Jun 2007 19:08:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JampJ Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Hope I'm wrong, sure you're not being conned?? Cheers J&J JFDI (Just F*****g Do It) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Brian, Where to was the car going? If I can do anything let me know (I'm in Denmark, have a trailer and a farily well equiped garage) /regin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Thanks RJ but the car is now just north of Paris and we're getting it brought back here to Germany. Johnjulie, I'm 'fairly' sure that everything is kosher about this. (Unfortunately)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Could it have dropped a valve or part thereof? (Sorry this is valve week for me as I've had a rather sobering experience) I'm taking it that the car is a xflow from its age? The oily bits near the carbs are: filter and pump, crank breather, rocker cover, dip stick. Did the car run a breather return into the rocker cover that could have worked loose in vicinity of carbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 It'd be fairly obvious but it could have lost its oil filter on the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Oil residue around carbs is ... fuel Loose carbs are how Weber intended... So he has got himself into a position of two newbie misunderstandings and an engine that won't turn over and start having been starved of oil. ANy new car ownership experience makes you rather nervous and it takes a while to trust it. There is the inherent liklihood that if the car was still owned by you, it would still be running. Something has happened to it not of your making. If he revved it like a modern OHC design or got a gear wrong then all sorts of havoc might ensue. There might be some perfectly genuine incidence of bad luck at work here as well (ref. oil filter falling off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile7 Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sump plug come loose possibly (it happened to Bionic Matt at Le Mans last year after the trip down - first morning blat from the camp and his car dump the lot just in town pootling - I was right behind him so managed to stop before damage was done.) Dave Ardley. White Xflow with Clams The Bearded Clams King Clam Of Clam Hill! NEW Updated Photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JampJ Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Pranged sump maybe? Cheers J&J JFDI (Just F*****g Do It) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sounds very strange indeed. Our crossflow used about a cupfull oil in the 1500km from UK to France, and another 600km to Pau and back. Does it have an oil cooler? Could it have cracked, to cause an oil leak? Are there any external oil pipes to an external filter? I've just spent most of the day in Bordeaux meeting with an "Expert agreé" about an Espace sold by a friend to a woman who has had a problem with the aircon belt and pulley coming a bit loose, which then rubbed on the cambelt. What she actually noticed was the speedo needle acting erratic, she took the car to a garage and they diagnosed the turbo needed changing *confused* and relieved her of 1500 euros. I asked the garage guy what was the reason for changing the turbo and he said "the exhaust was noisy" *confused* Later, he tried to say that the turbo was "cracked, and someone had tried to fix it with heatproof mastic" *rolleyes* *confused* *eek* The expert said "It's a pity you didn't call me BEFORE removing the "defective" turbocharger" as now they have no evidence it was ever part of the car, so any chance of a litigation for "vise cachée" against my friend has been lost. It seems that the work on the car my friend had paid a garage to do just 1000km before sale may have been badly carried out, as a woodruff key seems to have got well chewed up and chewed up the keyway in the AC belt pulley. This led to the crank pulley for the AC belt running crooked, and interfering with the cambelt, causing the noise that she heard. Doubtless the garage who did the work he had paid 760 euros for is insured..... The garage guy, the expert, and the woman were all trying to get my buddy to agree to just cough up 2000 euros or so to tidy the affair up..... That's what's called blind optimism, I reckon. Caveat emptor. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 7 Jun 2007 11:04:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sootysevener Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Brian This sounds more than a bit fishy to me. Sounds like the sump has had a clout and created a leak - even with his older car experience the buyer may not have been sensitive to the ultra low sump level. Call me a cynic but i don't think you should accept any financial responsibility here at all David 1989 1700XF SS clams with carbon webshots here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 7, 2007 Author Share Posted June 7, 2007 I'm inclined to agree that no financial burden should be placed on me however, I'm still of the belief that if it had been me that had bought the car and the engine broke, how would I feel if the owner from whom I just bought the car told me, "tough titty"? I would be gutted to say the least! I am going to have the car brought back here to the workshop that I know and have had dealings with and we can both look at the car and assess the damage. What I would be VERY reluctant to do is let the car go to a workshop in a foreign country and then be asked to stump up x amount of euros! That's where I could have the wool pulled over my eyes, as it were! I also still believe that the guy is genuine. That may be my undoing but I think I am a fairly good judge of character as I deal with the public day in and day out. This also wasn't just a business transaction. It was a seven enthusiast buying his first seven from another seven enthusiast & I think we have an unwritten code of practice within the community or am I being naive? Brian Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education. --Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I admire the position you're taking. If he's as straight as you reckon, I'm sure he'll return the favour and stump up if the cause of the damage is his doing. I don't think naivety is the right word; assuming the best about people until proven otherwise is hard to do, but ultimately worth it. (With one exception; ebayers. They're all thieving b****ds ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Well, the car has finally arrived back here in Germany at the workshop. On my way round there now to see what the problem is. Wish me luck!! Brian Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education. --Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Has the tacho got a maximum revs recall facility so you can check if the engines been buzzed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianHorn Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Graham, Have you spoken to my engine builder this morning ❗ Spooky because it has dropped two valves on 3rd cylinder He reckons it was over-revved and snapped two valve stems. The valve heads are lying on the piston crown or what's left of it all! There is metal lying in the inlet manifold nr.3 which i think explains why there was oil in there (according to the driver). He's going to strip the head off today and see what damage lies within however it's a safe bet the piston is broke(pun intended) and cylinder lining damaged. Hopefully the head will be salvagable and just needing a bit of whatever it is they do to save heads!! A rebore and a new piston should sort that out but the bottom end is still to be checked. I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now